Tragic Murder of Two Muslim Girls, FOX News, and the Hate Speech of Brigitte Gabriel

Normally I make a conscious effort to not watch Fox News because every time I do I end up getting angry at all the nonsense I am hearing and I am not trying to let Sean Hannity send me to a premature death by giving me a heart attack.This morning I decided to watch all three major cables news channels and C-Span to get as much coverage of the Iowa Caucus as possible from all angles and in particular I wanted to hear the conservative take on FOX regarding the victory of Mike Huckabee on the Republican side ( I was already in a good mood because of the Obama win the night before and had my fill with that).

It just so happened while watching FOX I saw the coverage of the murders of Sarah (17) and Aminah (18) Said by their father Yaser Abdel-Said in his taxi in Irvine, TX. For those of you unfamiliar with the story these were two Muslim girls allegedly killed by their Egyptian father and there is speculation that he may have killed them because he was angry over the way they dressed and their interactions with non-Muslim boys. For now this is just speculation and we don’t really know what happened.

If this is the case of a so-called “honor killing” or there was some supposed “Islamic motivation” for this killing then that is a tragedy, not only because these girls died for no reason, but because there is nothing honorable or Islamic about these murders.

For the record there are hundreds of thousands of young Muslim women in America and the vast majority of them are well-adjusted, loved by their families, and are on paths to success. If you do not believe me go to any large college campus anywhere in America and you will see Muslim women well-represented who have not been killed by their families; but have rather been nurtured and supported into success. These young Muslim women represent the majority of Muslim women in America and are far more representative of the community than tragic isolated incidents such as those of Sarah and Aminah.

Having said that there are problems with the treatment of girls and women in our community and I have written on this topic on numerous occasions in the past. There is a problem of domestic violence, abuse, abandonment, and ill-treatment of women in the Muslim community. This is not Islam, and this is not what the Quran teaches and it is not the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) or the way of the Salaf, but it is something that occurs in the community due to backwards and outdated cultural notions.

We have to realize that Muslim girls (and boys) being raised in America and going to public schools (or Muslim schools) are not going to behave like girls back home in Muslim countries. This means that a lot of Muslim girls are going to want to behave like non-Muslim girls here and in some ways that may be good and in others it may be bad. When it is bad Muslim parents need to learn how to deal with it in a civilized manner and not make a bad situation worse by going nuts. Most Muslim parents who overreact over their daughters don’t kill them; but many give them unnecessary punishments and are basically tyrannical in the treatment of their girls. This is an issue that needs to be addressed by the leadership of the Muslim community and is something I have heard addressed by many sisters at the recent Muslim Alliance in North American convention, Imam Zaid Shakir, Imam Suhaib Webb, Imam Siraj Wahhaj, and others.

What I saw on FOX News however made a bad situation a whole lot worse as a notorious figure of extreme hate by the name of Brigitte Gabriel was interviewed, and being that this is FOX, she was introduced as a “victim of Islamic terror”, an expert (not citing her controversial nature), and was allowed to basically ramble on a hate-filled tirade towards Muslims without being challenged even one time.

Gabriel (who for the record was never a victim of “Islamic terror” but as a Lebanese Maronite Christian grew-up in a civil war that was more of an ethnic and civil conflict in which her side practiced their own fair share of terror) used this tragic incident to go an all-out tirade against Islam and Muslims.

Her lesson from the attack? This is just another part of the plan of the Muslim Brotherhood, adopted in 1962, to take over America. The Muslim community in America is growing and Muslims are increasingly immigrated here because of this diabolical plan by the Muslim Brotherhood she says. Now, I could go on and on about this; but for those who do not know the majority of Muslim immigrants are not that religious and not that many of those who are religious have any relation or draw any inspiration from the Muslim Brotherhood. Muslims are coming here for the same reasons other immigrants yearn to come to America for superior economic, living, and political conditions.

To say that there is a plot that all Muslims are a part of from taxi drivers from Somalia to Pakistani engineers in Silicon Valley to Palestinian deli owners in Chicago to Nigerian doctors in Brooklyn is just absurd and irrational but on FOX News statements like this can go unchallenged. If there is a plot, as she alleges, where do all these Muslims go to get their orders? Who do they report to? How do they measure progress? How do Muslims in places like Morocco who sleep outside the American embassy to get a shot at the visa lottery become a part of the plot? Are they mailed instructions on how to take over America upon getting their visa?

Americans should be alarmed because “Muslims are emboldened by the rights given to them” Gabriel says; does this mean that Muslims should not be given rights or Islam as a religion should not be allowed? She attributes the building of mosques as a part of the Muslim take-over of America; but, again, if she was questioned she would have to admit that those opening store front mosques in St. Louis don’t have any connection to, or maybe even know, people in their own cities building mosques on the other side of town. These are simple independent acts of people just trying to establish houses of worship as other faith communities do in America.

Gabriel goes went on to say that “honor killings are very very common” and this was allowed to be said again without being challenged. Does she have any evidence that killings such as this are common in the American-Muslim community?

This finally led Bridgette Gabriel to say that Yaser Abdel-Said was being hid by “some mosque or mullahs”. Does she have any evidence of this happening? Is this something that has ever happened before in the American-Muslim community? Or is this just another cheap attempt by Gabriel to advance her agenda of hate?

In closing I want to give you a quote from her this year at a Christians United for Israel event and you tell me if this does not sound like something that could have been uttered by the Ku Klux Klan or a neo-Nazi organization;

“The difference, my friends, between Israel and the Arab world is the difference between civilization and barbarism. It’s the difference between good and evil [applause]…. this is what we’re witnessing in the Arabic world, They have no SOUL !, they are dead set on killing and destruction. And in the name of something they call Allah which is very different from the God we believe….[applause] because our God is the God of love.”

The fact that this woman, such an obvious figure of hate, would be allowed to speak on this matter speaks to the absurdity of FOX News and the misusage of this tragic event in order to create further fear and ignorance towards the Muslim community.


59 thoughts on “Tragic Murder of Two Muslim Girls, FOX News, and the Hate Speech of Brigitte Gabriel

  1. Asalaamu alaikum.

    “…there is speculation that he may have killed them because he was angry over the way they dressed and their interactions with non-Muslim boys.”

    This is in fact how many American fathers feel, whatever their religous persuasion. My father once felt this way about me and took rather drastic measures to curb what he saw. Obviously he stopped short of murder, but I was abused over this. I know plenty of other non-Muslim girls who were also beaten, restricted (one even from attending school), and emotionally abused because of these things. I also know of plenty of cases of what I think can be termed neglect where parents didn’t even try to teach their daughters any self-respect or in any way help them to avoid illicit actions (in many many cases where the parents themselves openly allowed it in their home). We can find plenty of evidence that killing daughters is not an appropriate response in any spiritual path, and as you say, certainly not acceptable in Islam. This emphasis on how “honor killings” are an Islamic thing is not only untrue, but also irresponsible. There are plenty of so-called “honor” killings that go on in American society, they are just called by different names. I agree with you that we need to work against this type of reaction across the board, including in our communities.

  2. Assalammualaikum,

    “The difference, my friends, between Israel and the Arab world is the difference between civilization and barbarism. It’s the difference between good and evil [applause]…. this is what we’re witnessing in the Arabic world, They have no SOUL !, they are dead set on killing and destruction. And in the name of something they call Allah which is very different from the God we believe….[applause] because our God is the God of love.”

    lol! – It’s their god (not God) of love has taught them to criticize different people and their culture?

  3. Theres no need to jump the gun, wait for the full facts to surface. This is the same replay of what happened in Canada with the murder of 16 year old Aqsa Pervez. The media reported that her father killed her b/c she wouldn’t wear hijab. Turns out her older sisters don’t wear it either, but did the media report that? They’re going to build this up to ban hijab and put the life of sisters in danger by further promoting the “poor and oppressed”
    As for that zionist-moronite harlot Gabriel, she had the distinction being featured on Shabbos Goy Awareness week, day 1 :

  4. I seen a speech by Gabriel on cspan a year ago, which was the first time I heard of this woman,I was awestruck by her blatantly misrepresentation of facts of the civil war in Lebanon. Her hatred towrds Arabs in general and Muslims in particular is nothing more than pure evil. This woman is insane. Nearly everything she says can be refuted with actual facts not opinion. Which why she never appears anywhere where her words can be challenged.

    Unfortunately, there is little we can do about such individuals because their actions are nothing but a continuation of Christianity’s stance on Islam that goes back hundreds of years. The best defense we have against these people are our actions, particularly dawah. It has been shoned time and time again through the centuries the more people interact with us,Muslims, the more the audience for these people and their hate-mongering dimishes.

    The Word of Allah is true:
    “Allah will never change the condition of a people until they change themselves”

  5. Thanks for the kind words, West African in Phily. Gabriel belongs to the same scum who collaborated with the Israeli invaders to ethnically cleanse Lebanon, and set up a puppet state in the south. Sabra and Shatila, anyone? If you ever run into anyone calling themselves a “Phoenician,” you’re dealing with a Maronite. These scavengers think of themselves as Europeans conceived in a test tube on the French Riviera, not Arabs.
    Oh, and just install Flash block in your Firefox browser, so any flash animation, music etc wont play.

  6. “Gabriel belongs to the same scum who collaborated with the Israeli invaders to ethnically cleanse Lebanon, and set up a puppet state in the south.”

    if the Israelis do as bad a job “ethnically cleansing” Lebanon as they have done in “ethnically cleansing” Israel of Palestinians (i.e., a very poor job indeed), you have nothing to fear.

  7. May Allah bestow His Blessings and Mercy Upon Those who seek Truth and Guidance.

    AsSalaamu Alaikum,

    The media is definately set on making Muslims and Islam look evil. Why? Because they’re scared. Simply put. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So they try to attribute this “honor killing” to Islam, when in fact, the killing of daughters, not specifically in this context but the killing of daughters, is spoken against in the Qu’ran. If Muslim fathers are abusing their daughters because they don’t wear the hijab or for such things, or killing, that is not Islam. I’ve never read anything in the Qu’ran or Hadith that permitted such actions.
    In my opinion, such lengths are wrong, as far as abusing or killing your daughter for not wearing the hijab. First of all, I truly believe that our sisters should understand the importance and the virtue of their clothing as Muslim women. That will cut out a lot of conflict and Muslim men must stop abusing women whether they be Muslim or not. Men period need to stop abusing women whether he or she are Muslim. But as Muslim men we should guard ourselves from such things. We must become stronger. The clothing of a Muslim woman, as I can recall and may Allah forgive me if I am wrong, is for the benefit of the women so she will not be annoyed. Not for the benefit of the man and his lusts. Men must guard their chastity just as women must. Simply put, Mentally and Physically. We must practice this in the home and in the street. Raise our levels of Adaab. And we can do it by the Leave of Allah SubhanawataAllah. InshaAllah
    The Ummah must stand up for Justice.
    These so called Christian, Zionist, whatever whoever leaders and spectators, want us to follow their way even by attacking or insulting them.
    We have our way.
    In Surah Hud verses 36 -39 it says Translated in English

    “And it was revealed to Nuh: “None of your people will believe except those who have believed already. So be not sad because of what they use to do.
    “And construct the ship under Our Eyes and with Our Revelation, and call not upon Me on behalf of those who did wrong; they are surely, to be drowned”
    And as he was constructing the ship, whenever the chiefs of his people passed by him, they mocked at him. He said: “If you mock at us, so do we mock at you likewise for mocking.
    “And you will come to know who it is on whom will come torment that will cover him with disgrace and on whom will fall a lasting torment.”

    End Quote.

    We live to Please our Lord. What this spectators and mockers do is no different from what they’ve been doing. We must prepare for the coming of the Day when Eyes will stare fixed in horror. We must prepare for the Day of Resurrection.
    So we have bigger issues on our plates than these people trying to issue their judgements on Islam and Muslims.
    As long as we stand united as Muslims and truly enjoin Al Maruf and forbid Al Munkar. Enjoin Righteousness and forbid evil. May Allah protect us. He is our Guardian and all things return to Allah.

    Allah (SubhanawataAllah) said.
    Translated in English – Surah Kafirun
    ” Say, ‘ O you disbelievers!
    I worship not that which you worship
    Nor will you worship that which I worship
    And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping
    Nor will you worship that which I worship
    To you be your religion and to me my religion.

    It’s as simple as that.
    We submit to Allah.
    So you and I as muslims men and women must remember Allah and worship Allah in all that we do.
    Allah is our Protecter and our Guardian.

    AsSalaamu Alaikum

    May Allah Bestow His Blessings and Mercy upon those who seek Truth and Guidance.

  8. Muhammad worshipers will lie and deny about the evil of Islam until they are strong enough to cut our throats. Pity that there are so many gullible, naive and unsuspecting Westerners who can’t get themselves to learn about this blood cult of barbarity & destruction.

  9. Dr.M,

    It is pretty funny when people from the Middle East try to distinguish themselves from Arabs by saying they are descendents of some ancient civilization. Ha! The Pheonicians were Canaanites who, according to the biblical account were supposed to be dispossed of their land by the invading Hebrews and completely and utterly destroyed by them.

  10. Not entirely true DrM. I have unfortunately encountered many Lebanese Muslims who often gloat the Phoenician moniker as well. The ironic thing is that the ones who gloat their “Phoenician” identity are the ones that often look Arab. Just look at Brigitte Gabriel, she resembles more of an Arab than anyone else in Lebanon.

    As for Brigitte Gabriel, she used to work for a TV station in Lebanon that was owned by Pat Robertson, and Umar, the Phalangists were the most blood-thirsty group in Lebanon, even killing other Maronites who disagreed with their thinking, as was the case with Tony Frangieh, and the Armenians in Bourj-al-Hammoud had their quarter shelled for their refusal to fight on the side of the Phalange/Kataeb.

  11. GOP presidential candidate Fred Thompson is warning the biggest threat facing America isn’t economic or social or even political: It’s the danger from muslim nuclear terrorism.

    “That the years ahead will be dangerous needs no elaboration from me,” Thompson, a former U.S. senator from Tennessee, says in a new video prepared for Iowa voters who will caucus later this week.

    “Most Americans know the forces of terrorism will not rest until a mushroom cloud hangs over one of our cities,” he said.

    You don’t hate coranimals?


  12. Salaam Alaikum,

    Excellent post masha Allah. I am absolutely astounded by some of the blantant hate speech that is not only allowed, but encouraged when talking about Islam and Muslims.

    Jazak Allahu Khayran for your comment too, Aaminah, girls all over the world are being told “you’re not wearing that” with various degrees of force.

  13. So what would the men here do if their daughters came home with a boyfriends. First of all alot of Muslim girls have boyfriends both here and in Muslim countries.

    Dr. M:pray tell what would be the reason two girls were shot in their dads cab, he is gone and one daughter recently said that her Dad would kill her if he knew she had a boyfriend.

  14. From the Dallas news media market, friends of one of the young ladies confirm that there was verbal assault prior to the incident. The one sister was threatened with death. The assault progressed to battery and both girls are dead. As a health professional I encourage any person to take a death threat seriously and report it to the authorities.

    The girls were in Advanced Placement classes, very pretty, well-liked and sadly it seems that the last thing their eyes saw in life was that their father had murder in his heart. He did not enjoin the good and forbid the evil in his own life.

    Mr. Said will be convicted based on the evidence in a court of law. His status as a Muslim will be secondary to physical evidence obtained at the crime scene and from the home, testimony of those who had concern for the girls prior to their deaths.

    Our nation is one which functions under rule of law. The law will punish the physical act of murder. As such, Carla Faye Tucker, who converted to Christianity in prison after sticking an axe in a person’s chest was not spared the death penalty because of her religion. Mr. Said’s religion will only have bearing when tying in the loose threads of the threats he issued against his children. Islam will not be on trial in the courtroom. We are Americans. But within our nation which allows free speech, if his actions were done in the name of Islam, it is open for free discusison. After the fact, it is up to your community to change your landscape.

    Tammy Swofford

  15. DrM – you seem to be more biased than the people you criticize. The treatment of women in certain parts of the world is appalling and this is a very sad story and a real problem – save your ‘Israel is the mostest evilest place in the world’ commentary for a story for which it has relevance.

  16. I see Tammy is up to her usual white wash tactics. The only reason this story is receiving this sort of attention is because it involves Muslims. The claim by Tammy, that his religion won’t be a factor in all this is simply untrue. Murder is murder, no excuses for it, but theres no doubt this is being politicized by the usual suspects to bash Islam. Grasping for straws like the desperate dogs that they are. How about we start profiling white males and the role of their Christianity in their crimes? Remember that Christmas Ever massacre couple of weeks back in Seattle? How about the daily criminality of Talmudists? Oh, but that would be racial profiling wouldn’t it?
    The trolling by judeofascist troglodytes and company is further evidence of this. Rabbi WankerPutz aka “sheilh yermani,” if you’re looking for barbarity, look no further then the devolved, verminous, askheNAZI terrorist rejects from East Europe pretending to be Semites, running loose in the occupied territories. That, and their bitterness at being kicked out of Lebanon is evident.
    Reza, reread my comments, domestic violence is global problem so why be so selective about “certain parts then others”? Israel is a terrorist state, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You’re correct, I am biased. I not a fan of fanatics and scum living 5000 years in the past, hopped up on a messianic mental disorder called zionism.

  17. Another supporter of those who shoot our children for sport expounding how they wish to liberate us. We’re so lucky. I wonder how many Muslim girls, boys, women and men she would have killed if given the chance. I also used to wonder how the Germans accepted what went on in the 30’s. I think we all know know. Poisonous media, weak minds, moral cowardice and willful naivety.

  18. …sadly it seems that the last thing their eyes saw in life was that their father had murder in his heart. He did not enjoin the good and forbid the evil in his own life.

    Very true words Tammy.

    The sad fact is that some Muslims are so ignorant of their faith that they equate their personal cultural practices with Islam. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

    Which leads to the next point…

    After the fact, it is up to your community to change your landscape.

    From the looks of this man, his daughters, and the information presented about them in the news by friends and family this killing had nothing to do with religion, any religion for that fact. While some people are prone to blame everything on Islam, I respect the fact that you did not do this, and instead mentioned that this man will be tried on the evidence, if in fact he did do it.

    There is nothing in Islamic law that permits a man to kill his family members out of honor, just as there is nothing in western law that exonerates the accused for a crime of passion.

    Firstly, a difference must be made between Islamic Law, modern Islamist rhetoric, and Arab or Pakistani Tribal culture. Here is an article that does come of that (See HERE).

    I can tell you as an specialist in Islamic Law that there is nothing to justify this in any way, shape or form in classical Islamic discourse. The person that commits this crime would still be punished under the law and would still be sinful in the eyes of the Lord. Jurists differed as to the extent of that punishment, but he is still guilty.

    Secondly, as mentioned above, from that presented about the victims and the accused as well as the information about them, they (and especially the father) do not appear to be “radical”, “Islamist” or even nominally “Islamic”. The accused’s son (the brother of the victims) did not approve of this act and said as well that religion had nothing to do with it.

    Therefore the real problem is not with Islam as a legal system or as a faith, but instead with the mock media and how they indict not just the accused but the entire religion of Islam. Despite the facts either not being established yet as in the case of the accused or the fact actually working against such accusations of barbarity and heartlessness as in the case of Islamic Law and the religion of Islam, many still can’t see the forest for the trees and conflate Islam and Muslim with the acts of a few. The Dallas news channel that covered the event seems quite fair in coverage, but a question that should be answered is why don’t we hear about the countless other similar crimes commited by non-Muslims? I’d like to think its because they care so much for us.

    If someone would like to argue that this is a bastardization and misinterpretation of law, then so be it.
    If they would argue that this is cultural then even better.

    You would be hardpressed (may I even say it may be impossible) to find an American Muslim, born and raised of either convert or non-convert backgrounds, having committed an religious rhetoric fueled “Honor” killing as many would like to believe happens based solely on Islamic teachings alone.

    And here is the real question:
    Why? Why would that be hard?


    Because it is cultural.

    The simple fact that cases like these for the most part do not arise in non-tribal Muslim societies is indicative enough of the cultural constraints of this crime, and not the religious ones.
    We do not hear of reports of Honor killings in societies that are viewed as highly religious such as Saudi Arabia, nor in those that are seen as mildly religious but are not ethnically homogeneous, such as Malaysia and Indonesia.

    This if anything must point to something, and if it points to anything it is the fact that this is a cultural act, not a religious one, even though zealots of any shade will try to cloak their bigotry and hate in religion for the simple fact that it makes it much easier to pass under the radar of discretion.

    Christians for centuries used religious misinterpretation to justify the inferiority of non-white races. Through social pressures all this changed, but yet there are still a number of Christians that hold on to these beliefs. They are not considered part of Main Stream Christianity and you probably would not find them being open with these beliefs if they did bother to come to your church.

    In the same light, and as I said above given that this man did not seem very religious, I doubt that he was such an active member of a mosque so as to make this case indicative of Muslims in Texas or the rest of the world for that matter. I do hope however that Muslims involved in Mosques will call attention to this issue as isolated as it may be, and work for more gender equity in social relations.

    Tammy you mentioned:

    After the fact, it is up to your community to change your landscape.

    This is true, but if people do not attend the mosque and do participate in the community, how are Muslims supposed to change the personal landscape of people so faltering in faith that they avoid the one place that they can receive help?


    On another note, some media outlets and pundit pulpits are saying “Why aren’t you Muslims condemning these acts, condemning Honor killings?”

    Well first of all:
    Would you allow us to use your frontpage to do so?
    Give us the air time?
    Accept what we have to say and present it to the public as fact, like you do for those that foam at the mouth about Muslims?

    And secondly, why preach to the choir?
    If you believe honor killings are wrong then why would you need to hear from me?
    If the real problem in your estimate are members of the Muslim community, then that is where the pressure needs to be directed, it needs to come from the imams and from above the Minbars, not 520AM talkradio shows and evening news shows.

  19. Just checked Yahoo news, turns out a man killed his girlfriend, then filleted and cooked parts of her body before calling police to tell them what he was doing. He wasn’t too pleased that she broke up with him for another guy.

    Based on my keen powers of observation, knowledge and political impartiality(come on, just play along), I declare this an honor crime, buffet and everything. I blame his race, religion for this, or this is just an example of domestic violence? Now imagine if the killer here was a Muslim, wonder how the coverage would be then. Anybody else, care to take a STAB at it?
    Shove it, shlomos.

  20. why won’t these fathers..if they really a nikkah/katb-e-kitab with these ‘boyfreinds’ if they are truly decent people. instead of just going the route of forbidding forbidding forbidding.

  21. The bottom line is that we have domestic violence in our community and murder just like the rest of our society although it is at lower rates according to statistics that I received while attending an all day workshop last year sponsored by ACCESS and Muslim Family Services (Division of ICNA Relief).

    Although I totally agree that we need to address the issue of domestic violence more and even how a minority of Muslim parents use violence to force their children to follow deen, we also recognize that when a Non-Muslim parent kill their kids or siblings, it is not referred to as “honor killings.”

  22. Some months ago they were doing a show on PBS concerning muslim women who had run away from abusive husbands. A 30ish imam was interviewed saying the women were no longer muslims because they had run off. In Islam, they were supposed to be like slaves and just endure whatever. Is his attitude the muslim norm?

    The trick is to leave at the first abuse. An abuser is like a rabid dog. Poisoned.

  23. DrM i recognize your point – that as soon as you attach the word ‘Muslim’ to a killing it is treated differently – but to ignore the cyclical killings of women by family members (fathers,brothers) that occur in certain cultures (Muslim and non-Muslim) and parts of the world seems misguided. If you want everyone to be politically correct in this case ending your comments with “Shove it, shlomos” might not help.

  24. Hey, DrM found a way to involve the Jews! Big shocker. And threw in an anti-semitic slur, just for kicks.

    Projected response; gratuitous, non-sequiter insult followed by reminder that Palestinians are Semites.

    why ask such a dumb question? Do you expect one of us to say “Yep, that’s Islam. We all hate women and just wanna oppress you. mmmm mmmm”?

  25. I’m not saying that any sort of crime should be ignored, Zi. Murder is murder, plain and simple…however its evident that the usual suspects(zionist jews and their evangelical and secular slaves in the west) are trying to take advantage of the situation. These criminals do not give a rat’s behind about anybody, particularly Muslim woman(interesting that they don’t seem to share “concern” for the suffering of Muslim woman in the occupations of Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir isn’t it?) I guess when they’re doing the atrocities, its ok.
    Sorry but I’m not playing their game, neither should the Muslims scramble like reactionaries every time something beyond our control happens. No need to lockstep to “assure” those who mean us no good. Wait for the facts to be presented in a court of law instead of submitting to this lynch mob mentality. So yes, shlomos and company can shove it where the sun doesnt shine.
    There are no such thing as “honor crimes.” Call it what it is : domestic violence/ crimes of passion and possession. Just because it happens in a different country or culture doesn’t make it exotically endemic. Everyday in this country, woman and children are abused and killed by fathers, boyfriends, husbands etc…how about we start profiling them and call their actions “honor crimes”?
    Was Chris Benoit a Muslim? What about the guy in Texas who killed and ate his own girlfriend because she left him? If idiots and narrow minded scum don’t get it, its their problem, not ours.

  26. @ Eliza

    The definitive answer is no. The base ruling in all schools of Islamic law is that if a woman complains to authorities that her husband is abusing her, and there is verifiable physical evidence of such, then he is guilty until proven innocent.
    So no, no woman is supposed to endure abuse just to make the marriage work.

  27. I’m just asking, is it a prevailing norm to tell daughters and wives to shut up and put up with whatever.

    Abuse is not a muslim problem. When an imam appears on TV and says something mean and stupid about it, that’s a muslim problem.

    How about that Yemen Times article – “There must be violence towards women.” Mmmm.

    Dance halls and skating rinks.

  28. What Yemen Times article, Eliza? Been spending time at MEMRI again?
    Oh look! Cretinous Dave in his obsession with my dislike of judeofascism and those using these murders to stir up anti-Muslim hatred, tries to straw man his through another useless post.
    Maybe someone can explain to me why “honor killings” by highly civilized non-Muslims like Chris Benoit and Christopher McCuin etc aren’t being addressed. Or this so common now that its just another headline?

  29. Posting under 2 different names, eh skank? “Anon” and “Eliza” having a conversation with yourself in another thread? A schizo in the works, how sad but typical of the pathetic verminous breed.
    BW the Yemen Times link doesn’t work. Nor do I see anything on the Mideast youth website. Why am I not surprised? It seems your pawsnot only did your typing, but did your thinking too. Run along now…

  30. Hey Doc, I’m just curious, is there ANY discussion you won’t drag Jews into? I mean, are “shabbos goys” and “judeofasicts” behind every single problem in the world in some form? Or are you just a paranoid borderline-psychotic who loves repeating his own lame catchphrases so much? This was about two girls who most likely were murdered by their Muslim dad. Your response?


    Seriously, you are just as bad as people like Pipes and Spencer in your own way. This should be self-evident even to a sorry bastard like you.

  31. Interesting that no matter how many presumably well schooled imams appear, saying nasty things, it is people like Umar and Dave, US keyboard warriors, who really know what the real Islam is.

    Ah, that will of the wisp Islam!
    A commentator on calls it Mohammed-centric Arab imperialism.

    Another on altmuslim says she wants US to elect a muslim president so he can criminalize adultery and ban alcohol and porn.

    What have these utopian longings produced? To borrow from Churchill, slavery, sodomy, and the lash.

  32. Ah its you again, Parallel Schizoid. I didn’t drag Jews into this, they decided to sound off with their usual anti-Muslim clinches. I merely responded to them after giving my take on this tragedy. If Judeofascists don’t like it, they better think twice before trying to take advantage of such a situation and slandering the community. Go back and read the comments from the top, deviant.
    You reacted predictably as expected, with the usual “DrM hates Jews blah blah” straw man arguments ala Pipes and Spencer. You’re a broken record. I couldn’t care less what a mentally unhinged son of a trailer park whore like you thinks anyway. Get over yourself and don’t misrepresent my views again, junior.

    And speaking of skanks, Eliza…it was “paws” not “pawsnot.” I’m sure you figured that out. So wheres that article? “They filed it”? Don’t degrade yourself any further by claiming you don’t post under multiple aliases, I saw what you did on the Muslim Matters blog. Almost as pathetic as your ever changing stories…

  33. I have never posted on Muslim Matters. Are you just trying to draw attention to your own spreading infection, Dr. Microbio? I comment on very few sites.

    See above the word “pawsnot.” A great word!

    If the person on altmuslim gets her wish, we could stone Bill Clinton, have another go at prohibition and burn naughty magazines and films every week while whipping the perps of same. The delights of the Islamic hellhole come to US.

  34. You’re trying too hard, Eliza-skank. I know your deluded posting style, deny it all you want but I know you were posting at Muslim Matters blog. You’ve lied multiple times in the past, so I’m hardly surprised you would do it again. I know you can’t help it.
    Reading your posts is less interesting than watching paint dry. Almost as pathetic as graping for straws over the word “paws.” Tsk Tsk No doubt a result of defective trailer park trash breeding which is a hallmark of your failed breed. Now go roll around in your peckerwood pig sty and leave the discussion to the adults.

  35. Eliza, ever heard of “ChristianExodus”? There are some Christians here who would want nothing more than to be governed by the laws of the Ten Commandments. Why not lash out at them?

    You take one commenter and paint the brush on all Muslims. You’re a sad little girl.

  36. Christian societies have suffered for centuries. The puritans established a “pure” New England. Death for adultery, etc. Bingo, Salem witch trials.

    Thousands were burned at the stake, imprisoned, etc. at the hands of “purifiers”. So the concept of separation of church and state was developed. Unfortunately there are always those who want to join the two back together.

    Now Islam reappears, as it has for centuries, clanking its miserable bloodsoaked chains and once more the cries for purity are heard.

  37. I see you’ve been drinking from the ol’ syphilitic Krusader kool aid, Eliza-skank. This is almost as amusing as your pathetic attempts at historical revisionism. Islam is not Christianity, it will not be paganized and co-opted by the likes of backward hypocritical scum like you.
    Rather odd that a “civilization” of cave dwelling cro-magnums owes it awakening and renaissance to Islam, isn’t it? The same blood soaked “civilization” which seeks to dominate the world through force and terror. A “civilization” of paranoid losers and control freaks hell bent of robbing the world of its resources while claiming to be benign little girl scouts. You can aid the betterment of the gene pool by playing Russian roulette with yourself with all chambers loaded. One less chain to break.
    But I suppose I should have some sympathy for your handicap. You are obviously paralyzed from the neck up.

  38. Since nobody seems to know what the real Islam is, and since Arabic is so tweakable, it may morph into any number of things. Already has.

    If the ME had created any countries worth living in I’d be more impressed.

  39. dr. misanthrope –
    islam won’t be co-opted by backward, hypocritical scum? hahahaaaaaaaaahahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaa!! it’s long been co-opted or is simply backward and hypocritical in its nature. which one is it maggot? won’t be co-opted …whoooooo! blood soaked, force and terror, paranoid losers and control freaks…ahhhh, co-opted islam. strap on a vest and go meet your virgins.

  40. DrM

    You can aid the betterment of the gene pool by playing Russian roulette with yourself with all chambers loaded

    Way to positively represent Islam, asshole. I swear, the way you write you just feel the contempt..

    Islam is not Christianity, it will not be paganized and co-opted by the likes of backward hypocritical scum like you

    That’s what separation of church and state is to you??

  41. A Christian father tossed 4 of his kids off the bridge in Arkansas. Another Christian father burnt his wife and 4 kids in Cincinnati this Friday. Seems like a case of “Christian Honor Killings” to me.

  42. Way to represent non-Muslim idiots who still can’t read, boozed pemphigoid. Get back to your AA meeting, and take the brooklyn shlomoe( the idiot lives 5000 years in the past thinking his idol is his real estate agent) with you. Make sure to stop off at some seedy gelefite fish pantry. Don’t forget to take Elizard with you, a fine trio of mentally impaired stooges high on the krusader kool aid.

    Excellent points, AJ. Honor killings are as American as apple pie.

  43. Just a couple of questions.

    1. In Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped. She was then charged and I believe sentenced to a number of lashes. How do Muslims justify this?

    2. As far as the fathers who killed their children in Arkansas and Cincinnati, how do you know they were Christians? Did they kill the children because of what they were wearing?

  44. “In Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped. She was then charged and I believe sentenced to a number of lashes. How do Muslims justify this?”

    Not being an agent of the Saudi government, I don’t justify it. How does the average Catholic justify Franco and Mussolini? Oh, right, nobody expects them to.

    “Did they kill the children because of what they were wearing?”

    Do we know that this was the case with the Muslim incident? And is the crime somehow less abhorrent if it’s not over sartorial choices?

  45. Grow up Susan. The girl in Saudi Arabia was not lashed, and was originally sentenced to this for being alone with a non-relative male, not for being raped. She was “pardoned” by the King. We’re not Saudis, or representatives of the Saudi government so don’t ask us how we “justify”(we don’t) whats going on there. Read the full story before mouthing off on blogs like an ignorant idiot.

    As for the killings in Arkansas and Cincinnati, they were done by Christians. Look it up before making up a pathetic straw man arguments. Its obvious your phony outrage is limited to misinformation about Muslims who you hate across the board.

  46. I applaud you for you extremely wise and rather deep analysis, on this new well coordinated psychosis , called Islamophobia. Thing scare-tactic , is used to dehumanize a group of people , and thus making their killing
    Iraq-1 300 000+
    Afghanistan 400 000+
    Palestine …… 300 + kids in 23 days (!).

    Islmophobia is s powerful civilian massacre PR campaign tool . Look in 2006, a month after the Lebanon refugee camps massacre CBS runs a scandal , edited to the bone interview, with Iranian pres. Ouuhhh , the psychosis begins, and we forget and forgive IAF using Cluster bombs (war crime!) in a refugee camp -killing 15 kids , just a month back.

    And Brigitte, what can we say ? She is a Lebanese Christian , that happens to curiously be an official commentator for the Jewish National Fund , owned by the World Zionist organization .You do the math…

    Chapeau for bringing a breeze of sanity , in this western fed psychosis .
    It is a shame to see how carefully media plants seeds of fear and disdain towards all the Muslims .To help the broader geo-political agenda of ethnic cleansing and colonialism have legitimacy and public support.

    P.S In Islam it is a deadly sin to kill your offspring . How can it be so-called honor killing, while it is prohibited?

    Thanks for your excellent post , Umar Lee , you re the best!

  47. The traggic thing is that their father did it – a person who is soppse to be caring,loving,giving,and so much more.My “PERSONAL OPINION” is that it is EVIL(acctally its PURE EVIL)to kill not just anybody but your own daughter.

  48. Brigitte Gabriel is a Charlatan, Demagogue and a bigot. She spreads hate for the benefit of Israel. Half of her story of Lebanon is a lie and she knows it, ask other American Lebanese people. I would not be the least surprised if she was a Mossad agent like Madoff was. People in the US need to wake up and see how you are being worked to help control the US foreign policy in the Mideast and else where. AIPAC for instance is forever trying to influence US foreign policy. The US gives Billions of dollars per year to Israel and that is never enough. Mossad in Hebrew means War by Deceit! Americans are being used for Israelis benefit. Ask Brigitte Gabriel about her duel citizenship like most people from Israel. How can she be a Maronet Christian and practice Judaism at the same time?

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