Email From a Detractor in the City of Brotherly Love and Muslim Madness

We saw that silliness you wrote about salafeeyah and we’ll address it

Please, I am waiting brother, but remember my attack is against some who claim salafeeyah like they claim their allegiance to a street gang, the Thugafi Dawah,  you know, the kind of dawah that leads brothers to jump off bridges when running from the police and hold up Wal-Marts and take out armored-truck drivers?  I guess those brothers are  on “the Haqq”  and their minhaj is right; but God forbid they had a CD of Imam Zaid Shakir in their car or a voter registration card on the way to do their dirt and they would be off it, right?

…..So you left salafeeyah(ali tamimi isnt salafeeyah they’re on takfeer) to be with a bunch of beard shaving sooofeees?

When and where did Sheikh Ali make takfir and upon whom? This is one of the problems with brothers of your ilk they are so concerned with labeling other people and putting them on it or off it they do not even bother to check the facts. Is your heart that hard that you do not feel any compassion for a fellow Muslim that has been unjustly incarcerated for the rest of his life? Is your gang affiliation that serious brother? Is there no mercy and brotherhood in your Islam? Or have you put being down with your gang as the most important article of faith?

 I see you have the haram music rappers everything  that secularist understanding of islam let’s you do. subhannnalaah…..Not to mention the nationalism they push that must be strange for you sitting amongst that.

I did not see any nationalism on display at MANA. I saw recognition of a reality that many brothers ignore that different cultures need to have different ways of solving their problems. You cannot import a way if thinking from the Najd into America and think it will succeed. Solutions have to be home grown but inspired by the Quran and Sunnah. This is in contrast to the attitudes of many African-American salafis I have met over the years who told me they were “no longer African-American” or even they were no longer black. Once such brother I know from the DC area, a hardcore Salafi till this day, went to Medinah with that understanding, and tried to correct one of his Saudi brothers. The Saudi looked at this dark-skinned black man told him to come here and the brother came up to him smiling and was promptly b####-slapped by a 140 pound Saudi who couldn’t beat up my sister. This brother, a former prisoner in the DC Prison and street thug, walked off without saying anything. Would he have let this happen in America? By a fellow African-American? By a white man? No, that would have never happed, but the Salafi dawah, and the way this guy digested it, led him to feel like a subservient b#### to an Arab. Now, do not get me wrong, I am not saying this was the dawah Ibn Baz, al-Albaani or Ibn al-Uthaymeen ( may Allah have mercy upon them), but I am saying that is a way a lot of brothers digested it.

 You have a post for all the angry black women who are jealous of the Moroccan women….Well if they were pious then the man wouldn’t think about leaving

Akh, it is a two way street. There are a lot of pious and upright African-American sisters and there are many who are not. Many of these brothers who complain about their women not being pious are not pious themselves, so what did they expect to get?

…most of them married 12 or 15 times…then previous sexual partners from jahileeyah…then gold digging tactics….I want this…I want that….asking for the khula every ten minutes…don’t study no deen….dress to impress is all they know……still cursing and swearing….every argument leads to divorce or khula…..will get physical too…….must run the streets…must be as much of man as her husband

This argument may make sense if many of the brothers making it had not been married 10, 15, 20, 25 or 30 times themselves and didn’t have more children than they can count on both hands and dozens of ex sexual partners from back in the day and then want to marry a 20 year old virgin who does not even speak a common language that looks like an Arab Kim Kardashian. Or if many of them weren’t finding a little something to hit on the side after calling their brothers and saying “I just need two witnesses akh” at about two in the morning with a Puerto Rican girl in tight jeans in the backseat of their mothers car with the imam on the cell phone.  These brothers ask for a divorce over the simplest of issues, like their wives Section 8 voucher running out meaning they have to now pay the rent, and then get mad when she wants to do the same thing.

Did you mention cursing and physical abuse? Did you say that?  Man, I know you did not go there after all of the sisters in the community who are getting beaten on a  regular basis. Remember, the famous go home and beat the W.A.P. lecture, and how many sisters will tell you how many of them got beaten after that lecture given by a pimp disguised as an imam who is now unemployed looking for any masjid that will take him.

Maybe the reason she thinks she is as much of a man as the husband is the fact that she may have more education and maybe more money and she does not consider a grown man selling incense, oils and batteries all day then going home to both of his wives in public housing while dodging the child support man to be very manly.

… as opposed to a Moroccan woman….knows,reads and writes Arabic ,knows the quran in two dialects,virgin,no boyfriends no concept of intimacy…

No concept of intimacy? Does that mean after the marriage to? Is that what you really want?

sows,cooks,cleans,doesnt have to be filthy rich,will stay home and have as many children as you want,

So what you are saying is that a third world girl is all good because you can be lazy and take it easy all day and listen to tele-links and she wont care as long as she has running water and an American woman would have thrown your lazy butt out a long time ago.

services her husband at beckon(not like these western ignoramuses who say I gotta headache scram!!!!)not thinking about leaving you because you cant work it or your too  small as we heard  at one Islamic lecture an American sister asked a scholar” can I ask the brother how big is his dinga-ling”..Filthy western sex-crazed people

There are many hadith about sex and about the man sexually satisfying his wife. If the sister has issues with whether or not the brother can get the job done what is the big deal? Are you telling me brothers don’t ask the same questions? That I haven’t heard ” man do she got a fat a## under their or what akh” or “man I got to see what she workin with before we get married” or the Salafi brother ” on the minhaj” who told me “blogs were form the Shaytan” and then has the time to email me to say ” akh, Sister Aziza Margari Hill look like Sharon Leal from Boston Public I wanna get at her akh u got her numerics or contact?’

…..Aanwar…this is the one who wears earrings and tight pants…has ashaaree aqeeda,believes the quran is created,and a soofee manhaj…hamza useless…ali jiffree who some of the scholars call a kaafir

No comment on any of this but for sure these are brothers I respect.


53 thoughts on “Email From a Detractor in the City of Brotherly Love and Muslim Madness

  1. Wow, I fell REALLY sorry for the person who wrote this email. They are going to have a hard time getting married, and if they are married, they better pray their wife doesn’t read this. This guy is pure monster. Not even close to the Qur’an and Sunnah. May Allah forgive him and guide him. Ameen!

  2. Brother Umar,
    I knew that it would be only a short matter of time before Shaitan would roll up inspiring his servants with false assertions and glittering half truths designed to delude the mind. Rather than get busy with the REAL WORK OF SERIOUS UMMAH BUILDING; Nooooooooooooooo, these lazy, no-business born, self-hating, no-original-thinking, plantation minded negroes would rather sit on their sorry asses and talk sh&%t while the REAL work is done by a few. Don’t waste your time responding to these ni$%&ers. There’s far too much vital work to be done. Whenever Allah inspires a people with a Message, Allah tells us that Satan is right behind with his schemes.

  3. bismillah
    as salaamu alaikum
    what W.A.P. ?
    ahkhee umar, please dont down salafiyyah because of the actions of some who claim salafiyyah or have a bad understanding of it. many people who use the word are actually abusing the word. also many people try to turn salafiyyah into a hizb.
    its no secret that the downfall of the dawah in america is the character of the people and if you notice people usually dont really listen to what the salafis have to say because of their behavior and not because of what they’re calling to. if you look at it on a bigger scale then its similar to the way many non-muslims find it hard to find out about islam becuase ofthe behavior of the muslims portrayed in the media and otherwise. however the haqq is the haqq! people are known by the truth and the truth is not known by the people. you observerved yourself that this wasnt the dawah of the imams of this era.
    so please dont be confused by people that make dhikr of the word ”salafi” all day and know that these people are abusing the word and many times they are in reality is they are far from salafiyyah. dont think that because someone frequents germantown masjid or wears the ”costume” this means they are salafi.
    lastly, we all have mistakes and we dont throw anyone ”off it” or out of the fold of islam due to sins or bad adab from the ghetto that have nothing to do with islam period. barakalaahu feekum.

  4. the damage the salafi movement did when it was strong is tremendous and many are out here trying to clean up the mess they made.

    that brother’s email represents the reason that they fell out of favor and became a sad train wreck. the first thing that comes to one’s mind is a person that uses righteous jargon as a launching pad to abuse women and shouts a brother at the masjid not following their way to the exact letter.

    they are no longer a player in the positive change of society and i believe that is a good thing

  5. I am really shocked ! , those poor morrocon woman , she has no idea what they are going to gte themseleves in to , and let me tell you something morrocon WOMAN are hard headed and would not put up with a man like that who is lazy !, morrocon woman are cunning , their really naive to think that marrying a morrocon woman would solve their issues .
    morrocon woman do not put up with crap .

    Another thing I heard their is a negative hadeeth about al najd .

  6. assaalmua aliakum Philly Salafi,

    It’s sad to say, but I bet no one pays attention to your response, and takes the email that Umar displayed as indicative of the whole.

    For the record, I’ve met more Brothers from the Salafiyyah manhaj that have your temperment, than the one from the email.

    barakalaahu feekum.

  7. Umar it’s sounds like your still infaduated with cultural issues(may I add not your own culture)LOLL…Do you ask about such filthy things?…..UmarLEE wrote:: likeAre you telling me brothers don’t ask the same questions? That I haven’t heard ” man do she got a fat a## under their or what akh” or “man I got to see what she workin with before we get married” or the Salafi brother(umar’s statements) Is this appropruate to ask?……The false ghetto deen you was taught………..I see the mentally of the people the statements ahead cursing ….The concept of intimacy means…that when you marry her she’s no t some freak who used to pole dance at delilahs den….but I guess you american guys like sloppy seconds!!!!Third world now that ‘s the american side of you talking..imperialistic…I take a third world girl over a smart mouth rasheedah girl anyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So being lazy is a woman who stays home as opposed to a sister who works…I see you dont understand islam and that the women only works if it is a neccesity!!!!!!!! not hanging out just kicking it or working to contribute her fair share but I dont blame you you only a reflection where you live at….some urban ghetto hang-out!!!!!!!!!!Natonalism is what went down at MANA….Titles like the cure for the black muslim in america…loll…is there hadeeth and quran for black people only?????????Stop your ragedy attemp to justify nationalism……..You’ve been brainwashed to believe we need affrimative action in islam!!!!!!!There’s a grown man who sells oils all day on g-town ave and makes plenty money…Here’s the refutation on idrees palmers and ali tamimi……. (

  8. MANA makes the center of dialogue marriage to specific women with unreligious advice about them…..Women commenting on where a muslim man goes to get married such stupidity…..Unfornately this stupidty lead to the death of muslim,salafi,millionaire….so enough of this talk it only inspires black women to kill muslim men who want to take a second from another country….Rahhimhulah……Unlissted2007…Put my name uptop….. not detracter… I’ll make dua for you …because “Your more astray then a jackass from his owners”

  9. I wonder if anyone can do a survey or knows of a survey that calculates the number of Men in the Salafiya movement with college degrees coming from urban masjids?

    How many have completed community college and have a regular job with benefits?

    How many of their children in America finish highshool and move on to higher education?

    How many hospitals, free clinics, homeless, or womens shelter they’ve built?

    How many public playgrounds have they cleaned up over even donated to the neighborhood at large?

    Just wondering…. I just think it would be an interesting read.

    P.S. That sister didn’t kill her husband of 20 years because of a MANA convention that took place after the fact and since she was salafi was more than likly to not attend such a convention in the 1st place. She killed her husband of over 20 years because he went and got married behind her back and used the settlement money from their daughters death to pay for it all. So please lets stop placing blame where it’s not meant to be. The Prophet (PBUH NEVER married women in secrete or told them AFTER the fact. His wives knew the deal before hand and voiced themselves on the matter. Follow his example not your Nafs.

  10. Unlissted

    The way you speak of converts who used to be promiscuous before Islam is appalling and saying that converts like sloppy seconds is not from a sane Muslim.

    Either you are a retarded Muslim or some idiot who loves division, backbiting, making Takfir, looking at others mistake for your enjoyment.

    Remember, that the great Sahaba (May Allah’s Mercy be upon them) were converts to Islam who had terrible past, they killed their own children; they fornicated, drank hardcore liquor, robbed, worship idols yet they are our models— we are converts like they were. They too re—marry women who you would consider sloppy seconds—but they were real men and beautiful women who knew of their past and lived their lives in time and in reality.

    As Muslims, we can not forget our background, whether we are blacks, whites, latinos or arabs—Islam is not against race but against supremacy. The Prophet (saw) praised the Arab people in many occasions and if we read 49:13, we can see Allah’s message about people tribes—so African American Muslims need to address their own issues and the rest of us should assist them when they ask for assistance.

    Also, regarding people who are not on your so-called “Minhaj” mentality; calling them names…do you really think they care? I doubt.

  11. I’m Salafi Masha-allah. I guess the brother’s or sister’s way is a bit harsh and may Allah guide he or she. Umar Lee you have made some hefty claims which are the least true or accurate. You shouldnt make blogs about Salafiyyah this is pretty much slander and something based on your understanding. Nothing based on true evidence. The Dawahtus salafiyyah and the callers to the Dawah is pretty strong ,well and alive. Then to trivialize a preference of where or who brothers choose to marry than I must say use are that you are trying to promote scandalous material. May Allah guide you or destroy your efforts to hurt or disturb the believers who seek marriages, Ameen. As I observed from another blog( from a sister. It’s obvious you are disturbing sisters. For the sake of what of mere talk or discussion. To some brothers Morocco might be an alternative. You turn around and make it something evil or questionable because they dont marry from here. You should spend your time doing better things not disrupting the lives of the muslims who seek lawful marriage. Do you think this will unite the hearts of the believers by slandering the dawatus salafiyah by claiming it’s dead or attacking Moroccan muslim sisters or the brothers who marry or are married to them?. The kufaar had a field day with this topic and your just picking up where they left of. Unlistedd is right a brother lost his life because of he had a second wife in Morocco. I agree unlisted response is harsh but should I join he or she in the same. By name calling and pettiness? Assalam alaikum believers

  12. Some questions:

    How many STABLE islamic schools have been established by SALAFIS in the US?

    How many grave yards have been established by the Salafi movement in the US?

    How many medical clinics established by Salafis in the US?

    How many salafi relief organizations in the US?

    Any ‘salafi’ soup kitchens or food banks in the US of note?

    What have this movement really done?

  13. Gomez shush………..Where did he praise arab people simply for being arab…maybe you mean arabs who happened to be believers….Go study some deen before you lie on the messenger as if he was some nationalist…….PS:I never mentioned a timeline of the brothers death the info here can stir a emotions to lead to that…Allah knows best…..There are plenty men who went to school…enough with gold digga rap!!!! worry about what you have accomplished…always in somebody’s wallet….. muslims have issues not black american muslims have issues….your making the division black muslims,spanish muslims etc …….Unlissted2007…Show us where we made takfir gomez????? dont compare the shahbas to umarlee’s filthy antics about checking a sisters bottom in a sitdown….you and him are sick essay!!!!!!!!

  14. khalil ….do you worship the dunyah or Allah ? so if I tell you the royal family of saudi arabia is salafi will you judge their islam by how much they spend and how much they did for islam as a proof of righteous or correctness? Seriously whatever the salafees have done is between them and their lord if you and the rest of these backbiting,nationalists came together and made a million soup kitchens,relief organizations,schools and graveyards it wouldnt mean anything if you dont worship your lord properly….and the salafees have definately contributed to that greatly….not like zayd,sheman,hamzta,ali jifree who call to grave worshipping and other gross bida

  15. Finally, Umar won a debate! I didn’t know you had it in you. Now that is a refutation!

    But that brother wasn’t completely wrong in what he saw and Umar wasn’t wrong in this case, either. They attacked two different sides of the same coin, but Umar did it much better… this time, at least.
    Look, even I’m aware different communities have different cultural baggages, but the common denominator is the same. Culture before Islam plagues everyone! The real reason nationalism was present there wasn’t because they addressed African-American issues; it was because they let non-Muslims from the Nation of Quack-Islam show up like they’re Muslims, too, without taking shahada and disbelieving in the taghoot of Fard Muhammad. They let them show up because they’re Black Nationalists and it’s confused with Islam, plain and simple. And as for that brother who wrote, you know you have to condemn brothers, too and admit that brothers in your community are as broken as the sisters. Some brothers marry Moroccan women for good reasons, other for bad reasons. Some marry good Moroccan wives, others marry bad ones. You failed to address the grievances sisters have with AA brothers who took shahada and kept all of their niggerish ways.
    This brother, a former prisoner in the DC Prison and street thug, walked off without saying anything. Would he have let this happen in America? By a fellow African-American? By a white man? No, that would have never happed, but the Salafi dawah, and the way this guy digested it, led him to feel like a subservient b#### to an Arab. Umar, I must grudgingly admit I agree on this point. I hate brothers like that, too, may Allah forgive me my hatred of them; the one who slapped and the one who walked away. May Allah ruin them both for perpetuating racism in the Ummah of Muhammad (saws). But that is just it! They won’t tolerate this from a Muslim in the US, so why should they not be violent in a country like that and rob Wal-Marts and armored trucks if they’ll split the money with other Muslims?
    It sounds harsh, but the reason I say so is another post altogether. Just so you and the fans know I’m not just being militant for its own sake or making it up, you should get an e-mail with the link and I’m also placing it here.
    Way to go in this debate, Umar, and I hope the document is informative to you.
    Unlissted, you made good points, good deeds are nullified by lack of proper worship. But for calling Gomez “essay”, may Allah embarass you unless you repent. Muslims are not supposed to insult ethnicites. Even when I refer to someone as a nigger, I’m speaking specifically about a mindset and not an inheritance of deoxyribonucleic acid! And that doesn’t negate Khalil’s legitmiacy of point either; have Salafis or anyone else built things we need in the dunya either. This is one reason why jihad is a necessity, to take the resources away from the taghoot tyrants and increase the resources of the Ummah. Not for personal gain, but for Ummah-wide enrichment, making these institutions that are needed in this life less difficult to establish!

  16. I do think it’s funny how Umar Lee’s Madkhali detractor is so keen on Moroccan women even though most Moroccans are muqallids (madhhab followers), Ash’aris, and Sufis.

  17. E$$ay is common street slang..nothing racial intended at all…….being salafy has nothing to do with being arab…..shaikh Muhammad al amaan al jaami,Shaikh Umar foulatta,Shaikh Hamd ansaaree all from africa and others as well people who were salafi…….When do you find arabs and pakistanians making seminars based on nationalistic slogans…and if they did it wouldnt make it right!!!!Like Palestinians fighting for land instead of fighting for the sake of Allah and to establish islam…..When you have nationalistic sloagans like that that’s the type of trash you attract every ” I’m black and I’m proud organization…Never forget the hadith when the prophet said…about the one who calls to the call of jahiliyah” May he bite the head of his father’s penis” (sahih adab mufrad) Unlissted2007 and we dont even have moroccan wives as some might think…Just defendin the haqq……We have our preferences but dont let that stop any man from striving for what they want or prefer……peace

  18. Hypocrisy?:

    Unlissted said: Show us where we made takfir gomez?????


    Unlissted said: …..Aanwar…this is the one who wears earrings and tight pants…has ashaaree aqeeda,believes the quran is created,and a soofee manhaj…hamza useless…ali jiffree who some of the scholars call a kaafir
    – …..So you left salafeeyah(ali tamimi isnt salafeeyah they’re on takfeer) to be with a bunch of beard shaving sooofeees?

    Unlissted, you are a Takfeeri –

    Lastly you talk against SLOGANS: “Minhaj Salafiya”, “Dawatu Salafiya” are slogans—I am not trying to speak against the Salafis brothers and sisters but making a point.

  19. UNLISSTED SAID: E$$ay is common street slang..nothing racial intended at all

    I think we all know that YOU meant it Racially—if not why would you say that?

  20. You got to love it, These are the best of the men that we have.. I feel doomed. Not all sisters were engaged in slackness in Jahiliyah. Not all of us knew what every sexual kink from A to Z but thanks to husbands who measured their worths by the size of their penises….sisters learned that working to lease ALLAH and their husbands was meaningless to a man that sought out sisters who were freaks in jahiliiyah in order to satisfy their own need to be virile men. Sloppy seconds…ain’t pnuffn fun about a brother who has infected his wives with an STD but I guess thats what these western rasheedahs deserve…right.
    We just raise 8 of your seed. Get abandoned for a virgin who in turn will have another 8 and be abandoned…all in the name of increasing the ummah.
    Give me a break.
    You misogynistic brothers makemy blood boil because us manly sisters who had to be man and woman, father and mother to your kids while your punk asses ran for the hills are the very reason why the ahkiira will be a lace of reckoning indeed.
    Sloppy me theres nothing attractive about a man who uses that terminology in the first instance.

  21. Gomez either you cant read english ….or your a follower of your desires……essay!!!!!!! Where did I say so and so is kafir…….just because someone has things that are kufr ….that doesnt remove him from the religion..daaaaawwwww………typical ghetto kid …you cant even read… Show me where I called someone a kafir…..let me help you out “Homes”…..Fulan is a kafir….that’s takfir or faulana is a kafira……This is what happens when you step up and enter into an affair with out knowledge….I suggest you attend free reading classes provided by the state….Gomez

  22. Yes Brother Gomez I see you have joined Unlisted in the same type of nonsense. For the sake of clarity when a person makes takfir he says so and so “is a kafir” directly. We all commit sins that could possibly remove us from islam but us being rendered as non-moslems then that is usually done by a scholar. I havent seen this from unlisted or anyone here. May allah forgive us for our sins and keep us far away from takfir. Ameen

  23. On da Sunna and unlisted (assuming you’re different people);
    Roundabout takfir, the bitch way of doing things, is more common. ‘Hmm, I don’t want to actually come out and say it, so I’ll say “some say” or “Some scholars say” this guy is a kafir, then I’ll call him a grave worshiper for good meaure’. Why not stop pussyfooting? Or do you imagine Allah is okay with takfir and slander as long as you only imply it, not say it outright like a man?

  24. UNLISSTED, as parallelsidewalk said it BEST, you are just playing with semantics, first you don’t give names of these so called scholars who have made Takfeer; and you are spreading fatwas without proofs—but that’s ok right? Because you are a true, pure, unaltered Salafee —right? From the Saved-Sect?

    Second, you mock my ethnicity? I wonder what the Prophet Muhammad (saw) would have said if he heard you—-calling me “essay”, “homes” and assuming that I need to attend state-sponsor school because I am a Latino. And you claim to follow the way of The Illustrious Predecessors? — You got the Salif us Salih ALL twisted.

    Lastly, call yourselves by whatever names you desire but the reality is that they are slogans YOU have stamped yourselves with and believe that you have the rights to trample of peoples honor and dignity.

  25. Paralellsidewalk…assuming your not ignorant…what I said still isnt takfir…I see that picture on your profile sums up your intelligence roundabout…….lol …I think you and gomez have no understanding of deen…. you guys have roundabout ignorance…lol…..Go learn some deen …Gomez if your looking to for some nationalistic demonstration march this isnt the place……No one cares about your race..focus on islam…..Just like if you have ever used the word nigga you must guilty of racism too huh?……..Paralellsidewalk it shows you still have a street mentality,cursing and using street lingo to get your point across……..typical paranoid street mentality….Well what do I aspect a forum with the haraam music rappers …….posted at the top like the owner is proud he listens to music boastfully and openly proclaiming his sin…..go find some dum street nigga to talk paralell assuming your not gomez food products……Unlissted2007 takfir? huh?… dont know the difference between a sandal and a tap shoe……lol

  26. Parallelsidewalk. I see you want to stoop to the level of others. I simply agree and disagree with some points with some of the people here. You assume I’m someone else Ma sha alaah. If we want to discuss the Takfir let’s do so without using foul language Inshaallah. From what has been mentioned no takfir was made. Not even round about takfir. We as muslims commit sins may it be beard shaving and etc but it doesnt remove a person from islam. If you think so prove it.

  27. Omar Lee said:

    “When and where did Sheikh Ali make takfir and upon whom? This is one of the problems with brothers of your ilk they are so concerned with labeling other people and putting them on it or off it they do not even bother to check the facts. Is your heart that hard that you do not feel any compassion for a fellow Muslim that has been unjustly incarcerated for the rest of his life? Is your gang affiliation that serious brother? Is there no mercy and brotherhood in your Islam? Or have you put being down with your gang as the most important article of faith?”

    Isn’t that what we’ve been telling you, Omar, about those Mujahidin you and Tariq continue to defame based on the lies of the Western Zionist Satanic media??? Subhanallah. Subhanallah how you wake up when you’re the one being accused. You smarten up right away and start to realize the logical ways to approach a matter, when you and your “ilk” like Tariq continue to be illogical and naive in tackling the issues of Mujahidin whom you hate more than George W. Bush, it seems!!!

    Baraa, what do you think of Umar’s words I cited above? Hypocrisy, no?

  28. Umar;

    It seems all your salafee-related post really brings out the commentator in everyone, probably mainly because every Muslim in America has had a bad experience with an obviously ignorant person that claims some sort of salafiyyah methodology as described in the post, or at some time or another has been that ignorant person.

    Philly Salafi;

    I really appreciate your separation of the actual dawatus salafiyyah from the ignorant actions and words of people who claim this methodology, however as already stated, brothers like Umar described in the post seem to dominate the movement.

    Unfortunately most of the Salafi, I know, have certain characteristic:

    *NO HIGHER EDUCATION and no propensity to excel or even understand worldly knowledge, despite this, now they delve into the complex world of Aqeedah and Fiqh, which is far more nuanced than any worldly knowledge, thereby removing it from a academic debate to a takfeeri fatwa.*

    *HAVE A RAP SHEET, OR DONE TIME at some point, in conjunction with the lack of a knowledgeable background, there is also a lack of character, which also lead them to commit depraved acts, landing them in jail.*

    *ARROGANT & SELF RIGHTEOUS, we know that the Prophet (SAS) is a Mercy to the Worlds, nonetheless they use the Qur’an and the sayings of the Prophet (SAS) to slap brothers and sisters around, embarrass and belittle people to bolster themselves not to teach them. Many of these brothers lack humility or compassion.

    The SALAFI MOVEMENT’S LEGACY for many of us, is one of unequivocal divisiveness, which I admit maybe far removed from what their scholars teach.

    With all that said, there are exceptions to the rule, for the best Muslim that I know is a Salafi, but he always smile, will refuse to continue to eat his food without offering it to you first, although he is very knowledge when asked a question he gives you a book with the answer rather then venturing out to give his own answer, he does not ascribe any righteousness to himself and always highlight his mistakes. This brother has such humility, that you can’t help but to hold him in high regard.

    Lastly, as well as knowledge of Qur’an and Sunna, we also need knowledge of time and place. Yes, we are one Ummah in the same way that Adam (AS) is one man, however from the one, Allah (Ta Ala) has made us into different tribes, gave us different languages, and placed us in different geographical locations, each of these tribes may have issues specific to their tribe. For example if there are Muslims in a desert region, with little agriculture or water, will their community mirror the Muslim community that borders a jungle rich with water and wild-life in regard to livelihood. Each tribe and each individual for that matter may have different needs or have to overcome different obstacles. Would we have African-American Muslims discussing the problems internal to Mecca while he is amongst the Meecans ? No this is nonsense.

    So before declaring a particular section of our Ummah as nationalist based on a title of a program, why don’t we first ask some substantive questions 1. Are their solutions based on Jahiliyyah or Qur’an or Sunnah ? 2. Did they claim their particular Muslim community to be superior to all communities based on nationality ? 3. Did they disparage other Muslims from different nationalities ?

    Let’s stop projecting our diseases and idiosyncrasies on every one else. As far as the Nation Of Islam, okay if they are there getting dawa that one thing but it was definitely wrong to give them a platform to address the Muslims, in a venue of a Muslim gathering discussing solutions based on Qur’an and Sunnah this has truly deflated the legitimacy of the gathering in the eyes of many Muslims.

    Maa Salamah

  29. Case in point;

    If you read all the comments, you will find some claiming salafee dawah as really insulting. Now I already know they are knowledgeable of all things related to Islam and lets presume that it true, but let’s look at their approach to their brothers in the deen.

    Contain derogatory talk about absent people.
    Hurls insult and foul speech at fellow muslims brother and sisters
    Indirect takfeers

    Brothers does this emulate the prophet’s (SAS) behavior and his dealing with Muslims or even the Kuffar for that matter ? How many non-Muslim were guided to the deen ? How many non-Muslim read it only to confirm their bias towards Muslims ? How many Muslims read this and think this is what wrong with brothers in the deen ?

    At what point should knowledge permeate our words, deeds, and character? What the point of having knowledge if it not beneficial, if we don’t even bother to correct ourselves of such belligerence but speak ill in correction of absent people ? Shouldn’t we at least treat our muslims brother and sisters with compassion or at the very least with civility?

  30. Actionable but unintelligent: Were the disparaged narrators of hadith present with there criticisers criticised them? Indirect Takfir…..Well Let’s discuss direct ignorance……Absence isnt a criteria or obligation for not repelling the ignoramuses who misinterpret or purposely misdirect the people from the proper islam….Which is salafiyyah without a doubt!!!!!!! Bring me scholars whom describe indirect takfir and then see if it applies anyhwhere in this forum….So if soofees,ashaarees,and ahlul bida all together have a clean rap sheet and all the dunyah and no striving to be on righteousness as we see umarlee boastfully propagating haraam pictures and haraam music, at that….. The rappers the worst of them in their various songs of fornication and filth….Then without a doubt I’d rather be a salafi with a rap sheet ,no dunyah accomplishments.,making minimum wage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Unlissted2007……Mujahideen where is there jihaad??????????? haa-ree-ree?? …Read about the qutubees..unlissted2007

  31. ASA

    Actionable Intelligence

    I think you’ve said just about what I’ve seen and constantly think when ever this issue comes up.

    I wish every “sector” that spreads “dawa” and improve the condition of people no matter if their Muslim or non Muslim with Quran and Sunnah the best of success. However, since I’m more business inclined and I think of my Prophet (pbuh) as not only a highly spiritual man but a wonderful businessman who only improved his skills while married to Khadijah (ra).

    So I like to think things are meant to be in a certain order. Cleaning the spirit 1st, showing people a better way 2nd, then producing physical works that reflect this practice.

    For a long time I see people in every “sector” teach only the letter of the law and not the correction of the spirit. Something the Prophet worked on for 13 yrs with people before he even got down to establishing an organizational framework that would in time run a city and then a nation. It’s like the 1st 13 yrs are hardly talked about and only the letter of the law is important and triumphs compassion, patience, social justice, and mercy.

    Now, I see a few more organizations have realized this hard core very black and white approach to deen isn’t producing the best results, many people have left the deen finding it hard to maintain such a framework.

    I think it’s no accident that some groups have moved more toward teaching some of the social justice, mercy, and tolerance aspects of the Quran and Sunnah have grown bigger in influence while the others have grown weaker.

    Who will win I’m not sure. The one with the BEST business practices and competes’ the hardest in doing good deeds will clearly win. Which is why I asked the questions I asked earlier because they help make a team reach these goals easier if they live in America and know how to play the game. Therefore, priding oneself in not knowing how to play the game and then criticizing others who are trying to find their way out the maze is counter productive. You must have something more to offer the people than mere words. You must know when to compromise and when to stand firm. By the way some of these Salafi talk; they would have dismissed the Prophet(pbuh) for even allowing the pagans to cross his status as Prophet out of the peace treaty. His signing of the treaty would have been as act of betrayal.

    However, his wisdom in this action bore us great fruit. It gave us time to formulate ranks, improve dawa, and provide services to people that they never received from the pagan elite. These actions made people want to listen to the dawa, and join in helping spread Islam.

    People need to see physical services being provided. They need to see us out in the open expressing concern for everyone not just Muslims.

    They need to see us as productive members of society, not some snobby cult group in the corner that only wants to take advantage of living here while feeling disgust at being around anyone who isn’t like them or in their crew.

    People don’t run in droves to that type of mess.

    So again, where are the droves of educated masses you have pulled out of the poorest of communities you like to prop your masjids in?

    Where are your highly successful and long lasting marriages, your gated communities, your hospitals, free clinics, park clean ups, your neighborhood patrol, your highly successful drug rehab program that even non Muslims want to go to, your half way houses for brothers and sisters getting out of jail and you job training programs?

    All I see and hear is who’s on it and who’s off it. I always hear why you were against something but I see known of you addressing serious issues with solutions in your own communities.

    You’re not going to win like that. It’s a very weak business plan.

  32. Assalamu alaikum, reading the post and the comments makes me sad! If this is what being a “true Muslim”, a person who is “following the Sunnah”, if this is what the so-called “Salafi dawa” is calling to, well, obviously I don’t want it! Yeah, yeah, I know this might be just some people claiming to representative this movement, but still, why does this always happen when the word “Salafi” is mentioned? And funny when people asked if anyone fromthis movement has created anything like medical clinics, etc., that no one can answer that question!

    Anyway, forget all the slogans, etc., this is just bad behavior pure and simple! How ad, especially coming from people who claim to be Muslims and who say they’re following the Sunnah of our Beloved Messenger (peace be upon him). Gosh, this just amkes me sad!

  33. Remember the Prophet (SAS) was “Al Amin” before revelation, his character was already established, as was Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) and conversation to Islam enhanced the beauty of their character, so people bring their baggage into the deen.

    The reverse also holds to be true, under-achieving and low functioning individual carry their baggage into the deen as well, only the truly sincere can overcome these ingrained obstacles (Allahu Alim)

    The problems develops when these under-achieving and low functioning individuals with no propensity towards studying Islam with depth become obsessed with the scholarly internal aspects of the nuances of beliefs such as Tauheed and Aqeedah, then use it to slap people around in order to compensate for their externally deficient, under achieving, low functioning and unremarkable existence.

    This gives birth to your statement:

    “Then without a doubt I’d rather be a salafi with a rap sheet ,no dunyah accomplishments.,making minimum wage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    It’s no need to be sensitive about your lack of any educational, economic, law-bidding accomplishments in the physical world because it does not negate your Islam or your place in the akirah (Allahu Alim).

    But would it not be better to be a Salafee, who has exhibited excellence in the Dunya and in the Deen ? Wouldn’t be better to be a Salafee with no criminal background, with a Halaal job to meet the needs of himself and his family? Wouldn’t it be better to be a Salafee, who opened a soup kitchen for the poor or volunteered in a medical clinic to help the sick? Would it not be better to be a Salafee and emulate the GOOD CHARACTER of the Prophet (SAS) ?

    But no, therefore we of the Ummah must endure your like rantings about that deviant and this deviant, that beard shaver, and him he does not use his pinky to clean in between his toes when he makes wudu and aqeedah conspiracy theories.

    Yaa Akhee, may Allah accept the Good that we do and forgive us for the bad that we do and grant us Jannah. Ameen.

  34. Hijab

    For their like, some aspects of the Prophet’s (SAS) life is an INCONVIENT TRUTH, the Prophet (SAS) was a mercy to the worlds, gentle on people, he came to perfect good character. How many of them highlight these undisputable facts, its for this reason, many of their like quote scholars rather than the Prophet (SAS).

    This is what Allah (TA) said to the his Messenger (SAS), so how much more should we exert ourselves to follow this example.

    Al-Imran (The Family of Imran)
    “3:159 It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (their faults), and ask for (Allah’s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).”

    Where is the mercy, where is the passing over their faults and asking forgiveness for them, there response is the opposite, they takfeer for any issue and all issues and insult with belligerence. They talk of knowledge but their methods, attitudes, presentation shows the lack of knowledge when dealing with their own brothers and how is this when Prophet Muhammad is Prophet (SAS) and teacher.

    Hijab may Allah make the ummah patient with our well-meaning brothers and sisters and forgive us all. AMEEN

  35. hey you brainwashed Madkhali, the Qutbis to you are those who call for standing up against apostate rulers (not unjust, not fasiq, jahil rulers, no, APOSTATE rulers, like those of Saudi you must be worshipping on &

    Keep your garbage in your home, we know better than to fall for what you fell for, ya miskeen.

    Btw, your ‘wali amr’ few days ago was in the Vatican smiling and giving present to the filthy soul of Benedict who called the Prophet evil and Islam uncivilized a few months ago. How come you Madkhali shoes are still at the door of the Vatican waiting for your master to come and wear you again for another Kufri trip (perhaps to the White House)?

    I declare the Kufr of all Arab and Islamic governments and rulers, and the legitimacy to target them and their soldiers, until the Rule of Allah is established on the Land of Allah. Whoever doesn’t declare the kufr of the kafir is also kafir. This is all clear Quran and authentic Sunnah from which we deduce these rulings. Madkhalis are security agents, their goal is to keep the apostate regimes entrenched, and they will stand against the Mahdi who will conquer Arabia (according to hadith) from their Saudi masters (most likely).

  36. Some good comments here. I don’t know if it is me, but does anyone else notice that when this issue comes up you can almost tell exact which “side” someone is going to be on without even reading the post?

    The Salafi “supporters” here cannot put a proper sentence together for their lives. The spelling and grammar mistakes are legion, and they seem not to know what a paragraph is. In a medium where only your ideas and the form of your written word is used to judge you, you’d think these guys would at least brush up on some basic English skills.

    It is always the loudest voices that are heard, and in the case of the Salafi movement here in the USA, it is the unbeducated, ignorant, mean, hypocrites that get attention. These people, far from calling to the Salaf and to Islam, make people RUN from Islam. They, through their actions, are doing to work of the devil. It is ironic that those who claim to know the deen the best are those that are, through their deeds and actions, doing so much to discredit it.

  37. Huss-sap hariri….. who da hell are you???? You declare…..Now if you guys are looking for takfeer you got it…..Sounds like a real terrorist to me!!! I typed like this because it’s my style and trademark. Abu sinan so strange how you think a comma allows you have a run-on sentence like you do at the beginning of your post….lol……oops…hussap hariri like the rest of the takfiree,kahrajee,terrorists believe that shaking hands with the pope and visiting him means you leve the religion of islam…..I know you sleep with the covers on at night ……save the tough mujahideen talk..hussap hariri……Actionable but not intelligent…..We quote scholars because the know the deen the best……not like you who misinterpret the religion and make stupid mistakes and understand the deen the way you want to…..quran is understood by tafseer…..but I understand your not salafi and dont refer the salaf for your understanding…….We can make have accomplishments and succes in the dunyah…..but when you all you talk about dunyah accomplishments instead of deen then..we see what’s important you…What do you think you will proceed a person with correct aqeeda and methodology on yawmal qiyama..with your soup kitchens and college degrees and you were a soofee grave worshipping ignoramuse???? actionable?? …The qutubees are the ones who follow some egyptian, beard shaving,suit wearing news reporter named Sayyid Qutb who made takfeer on the whole islamic ummah ,and he said the quran was created,and he was an ashaaree,slandered the companions of muhamad,and slandered musa the messenger,..that’s who the qutubees are!!!!!!!….

  38. Hijabisoverated said:So I like to think things are meant to be in a certain order. Cleaning the spirit 1st, showing people a better way 2nd, then producing physical works that reflect this practice. Where in da world did you get his from???? The propehet sent Muaadh to yemen and he said the first thing you call the people to is tawheed…..not soofee-gooofiness cleaning the spirit…talking Salafitalk..go there and learn some deen from them…….

  39. Unlisted:

    As Salaam Alaikum

    My comments were general when you look at the history not literal. Its already assumed that you call people to the oneness of Allah SWT. Thats logical and I didn’t think it would need to be literal explained to Muslims.

    Still you sister in Islam even if you seem to hate it so. lol

  40. Unlissted,

    I think Hussam Hariri beat you to the Hall of Puritanical, don’t worry keep trying you will make it in no time. At least he had the balls and make takfir on people instead of dancing around Takfir “some of the scholars call a kaafir”—and WHO are those Shcolars that have made Takfir?

    Unlissted and Hussam are the followers of the Salaf?— you guys think that because you read some SUMMARIZED HADITH Collection gives you the right to judge? This is the legacy left behind by the childish Sloganeers; on the Sunnah, on the Minhaj, Let the Sunnah go Forth, What Aqeeda Akh?, The Saved Sect, Walaa wal Baraa, and many more….come on this is so pathetic.

    Oh! lets not forget the extended vowels—Islaam NOT islam, Aqeeda NOT aqida– because that’s leading to bi’da and bi’da leads to the fire—.

  41. Unlisted;

    I have the correct aqeedah, but I take your slander and see you on the Day of Judgment for that.

    The point is the correct aqeedah should also equal correct application of your faith and inspires your actions to not only spend nights in Tahajjud, but to want to help the poor, or pursue higher education in both Deen and Dunya, or to help the sick and to guard your tongue.

    The fact that you believe you have correct aqeedah is wonderful, but it is also a responsibility to invite the less fortunate to that. Are you doing that ? If so, how many many have you convinced in this blog, none, even your Salafis brother have separated themselves from you, due to your senseless approach.

    From your writing, I guarantee 95% of the people, if not more presume you are uneducated including your salafee brothers, you do an injustice to yourself and injustice towards the true salaf. You have actually criticized feeding the poor and helping the sick.

    Should not correct aqeedah and methodology have a more profound impact on your etiquette, approach, and character, especially if you claim to emulate he, who perfected good character (SAS). You do an injustice to the representation of the Prophet (SAS).

    I don’t question your Iman or Aqeedah that between you and your Lord, but I do question your approach and character or the lack of it. This is not an insult but Nasiha for you to try a better approach but I’m sure your response would be filled with belligerence, citation of four or more deviant groups, and lunatic ranting and raving.

    As for me, I’m done KHALAS.

  42. Gomez,

    I’m not a mufti, but I relate the fatwas of scholars when I speak like that. Takfir is not a ‘big no no’, it only has rules which once realized then there is nothing haraam about declaring one as a kafir.

    Allah told us that whoever sides by the Jews and Christians against Muslims then he’s one of those Jews and Christians, i.e., kafir / no longer Muslim. We all know that Arab and Muslim rulers are kafir because of that, because of allowing riba, not ruling by the Shari’ah, and making the halal of Allah haram, and vice versa. This is enough to start preparing for an uprising against them, to topple them, then install an Islamic government. We may not have the means now, but nothing ever stays the same. The West is backing them up, the rulers, because it fears for its interests in the vast Arab / Muslim world.

    Again, I know better than to pose as a scholar. I follow scholars you may never hear of but through translated works, blogs, websites like ‘InshallahShaheed’s maybe. My scholars aren’t agents like Bin Baz or Uthaymeen, who posed the greatest fitnah on Sunni Muslims and repelled so many from accepting the Salafi way (or caused confusion for some, like me, until I learned that the truth is known before its men, and not vice versa).

    Madkhalis spread myths about the so-called “Qutbis” because they don’t want the precedent Sayyid Qutb has set to spread, to revolutionize Muslims and encourage them to rise up against tyrants. Qutb can do mistakes, he was not a scholar or faqih, he was a mere writer with exceptionally high eloquence and jealousy over Islam. If Madkhalis insist that he has mistakes, then what about Bin Baz’s and Uthaymeen’s and the rest of the gang of agents in the Low Committee of Sighaar al-Umalaa (Agents)?

    Madkhalis aren’t Salafis. They are Murji’ah.

  43. Hussam,

    Whether you are a Mufti or not; accusing people of major sins (or making takfir) on matters in which scholars (or the Sunni community) differ is dangerous and irresponsible act. It is known that scholars have the right to differ as long as their judgment is not based on personal desires. If you read about scholars of the past (to mention a few Imam Abu Hanifa, Ahmad, Shafai, Malik, Tahawi and the Sahaba) they did not posses a loose tongue on takfir as your anonymous scholars do.

    Your anonymous scholars are not the only Muslims of the world and I am glad they are anonymous too. Your ilk argues that if we differ from your understanding you run with the tag-you’re a Kafir, that’s pure ignoramus mentality. We all know that even in the time of Prophet (SAW) the companions differ in many issues. After the Prophet (saw) died the whole entire community went into a state differences, who should be the Khalifa—Even our beloved mother Aisha (r) went to war with Amir Al-Muminin Imam Ali (r) –Why? They differed.

    Now guess who were the sect that went against them?—the infamous self-righteous, pompous Khawarij, who resemble the new self-righteous cultish takfiris of today.

    My last words are regarding your takfir on relations with Jews and Christians. This is really shallow and because of that comment I am not sure if you’re serious or if you are a non-Muslim stirring problems, but you are a man of the Qibla than you are my brother in Islam with a hateful heart against people of the Book. Unfortunately, my entire family is not Muslim but Christian (who defend Islam against those who speak against it)—and if loving them makes me a Kafir according the Lovers of Takfir—than all the takfiris are welcome to give me their good deeds.


  44. Of course

    Your scholars are those who fought and were paid by the U.S….yes these are the people that the muslim ummah should follow….those who when you look at them (ayman) speaking look like complete nut. Just have to look at his old clips or that tough guy in the mountain who pays people to stand around him to shoot up in the air.

    Or those complete wackos who talk about their hatred of the west and have been living amongst them for 25 years.

    Or the up and coming bloggers who live with the “KUFFAAARRR!!! in the basement of mommy and daddy’s house. Yes the future of the Muslim Ummah…

    You can keep your scholars who have no fiqh of the deen as the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him spoke about them and called them the dogs of the hell fire.

    May Allah protect us from being and following those who have no knowledge of Islam.ameen

  45. Some of those who commented get so caught up in defending or detracting, or whatever, that they cease to realize the backbiting in their words. Agree or disagree that’s fine. Get passionate about defending your position (with firm daleel, if possible), that’s fine, too. Not everyone is going to hold the same opinions as Br. Umar, or even other posters for that matter. But calling people out of their names and describing them with terms like “ignorant” and “brainwashed” is most certainly not the sunnah. If you discuss or even disagree with someone you are supposed to do so with calmness and good words.

    People will form their opinions about Muslims and Islam by what we write and how we speak and act. Is this the example we want to give them? “Actionable Intelligence” tried to disagree with politeness and calmness and he was answered with less than that. And Allah will ask us about every word; spoken or written.

    What will be in your book?

  46. AS Salamu Alaikum
    Please be very careful! For the person who spoke on the sister in Philadelphia killing her husband,be more careful. Do you know her? Do you know what she claimed to be upon? You called her a salafiy. Did she call herself that? You don’t know. For the people who are speaking of the education of the salafiy muslims in Philadelphia, be more careful. I see more and more seeking higher education with hopes for hijrah. There are many in the Philadelphia community who are educated. There are many negative examples that can be given regarding the salafiy muslims in Philadelphia. One must keep in mind these are people, not the dawah. Please diffrentiate the two. What makes any of us better? May Allah help us all. Ameen. What are we doing to help?

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