The Problem of Porn

umarlee.com feature

Ran into this article on the sex problems in the Arab/Muslim world. It has become so insanely difficult to get married in the Muslim world – because of the outrageously high dowries and the cultural demands for an expensive wedding party and jewelry and so on – that we are seeing embarrassing pathologies develop. Of course this is not something that only happens in the Muslim World, as we have working-class people in America getting married in lavish weddings like they see on lifestyle cable channels only to get divorced a few years later, but for now I am dealing with the Muslims.

This must have to do with the fact that people can no longer marry as young or as easily as they once could; harassment of women on the streets is but one sign of sexual frustration turning into a serious social problem. But to a far greater extent than the accessibility of sex — the legitimate availability of private space, for example — it is conditions like erectile dysfunction — an affliction, according to a National Research Centre report published three weeks ago, of some eight per cent of Egypt’s male population — that state- run and private television have concentrated on, with whole segments of their programmes, even a weekly show, dedicated to problems between married couples in the bedroom.

The sad result of this is that most women internalise their discontent, with terrible consequences for the whole family. Nor does the lack of sex education — even at the biological level at school — help anyone: the vacuum of conversation and debate can no longer continue, Mustafa insists; nor will the state whereby “we say one thing in public and believe the complete opposite in private“. In private, indeed, he goes on, few issues are impacting the Egyptian psyche as much as sexual frustration: the combination of religious-cultural constraints with globalisation and access to satellite television, together with bleak economic prospects, has placed the average Egyptian under unbearable sexual pressure. ( Now, in my words to sum this all up, Egyptians are dying to get laid after seeing Shakira and Beyonce on TV and due to money issues and cultural ones are not able to…and even when they do get married and get laid they are getting busy in a room with a paper thin wall next to their uncle).

I’m glad that someone not only with letters behind his name is saying the same thing that I am saying, but is a Muslim living in the Muslim world. So Umar does seem to know what he is talking about after all it seems

Considering that marriage — an extremely expensive procedure — remains the only legitimate means to having sex, the figures might as well speak for themselves: seven million unemployed, nine million unmarried over 30, and 40 per cent of marriages between cousins (something that is particularly true of the provinces). No wonder sexual frustration is rife: a marriage based on family interests — to appease the elders or keep wealth within the family — as opposed to genuine affection and understanding, is unlikely to sustain a healthy sex life. For men, masturbating to porn or indeed Arab video clips — it costs no more than LE20 a month to have private access to satellite television or, as Mustafa puts it, “marry the TV” — is a convenient alternative to both the hassles and expenses of matrimony, which are absurdly exhausting by any standards, and the moral agony of engaging in premarital sex: “add to this the fact that the religious establishment in Egypt has often professed that masturbation is the lesser evil compared to sex out of wedlock.” Masturbation may be perfectly harmless in its own right, but the fact that, abetted by pornography, it has come to replace sex in Egypt Mustafa finds alarming; and with the ever rising marriage age in this society, people grow up and grow older knowing only one sex partner — themselves meaning that, in the long run, there are only two parties benifitting from this; the satellite companies and the makers of lubricants. Mustafa pointed out that, while masturbation is about satisfaction, sex is about a lot more: understanding, affection, excitement, pleasure. Masturbation kills intimacy, he says; in the absence of intimacy even married couples become sexually frustrated and the men prefer masturbation to the disappointment of sex.

That is because for too long we have associated sex (and by extension marriage) with the relieving of (mostly male) sexual impulses instead of love and affection. But before you all start firing off the hate emails, read the following:

Still, Mustafa is by no means advocating premarital sex or the exclusion of religious teachings, rather he is emphasising the fact that something has to be done to ease the tension, and pornography is clearly not the answer. Liberalisation of sexual attitudes along with secularisation of society, he predicts, will take place in Egypt in much the same way as it did in Turkey and Central Asia, however slow in the coming.

The entire way we look at relationships with the opposite sex (marriage) needs to be overhauled from looking at it as one of providing sex, food and children to one of caring and sharing.

Before someone says “WELL LOOK AT THE WEST” can we stop doing that for once and start looking inwardly and try to solve some of our own problems instead of always looking at the West? What is even more scary is that we have imported many imams that have tried to impose this understanding of love and marriage upon us here in the West. We have American-Muslims who have adopted these dysfunctional way of thinking and behaving as a part of Islam in their mind.

It is unorthodox, but I don’t feel like there is anything wrong with the youth getting to know one another (not having pre-marital sex) and developing something of a friendship. This thing of the woman being a sexual object, broodmare and maid is not working as seen in the article above and it will work even less as women become more and more educated.

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50 thoughts on “The Problem of Porn

  1. This is the result of fisq (being distant from the essence of Islamic teachings) and cowardice (not rising up to the corrupt regime and asking for more urban expansion outside the Nile Valley and investing in the infrastructure, building new cities, having spaciouis streets WITH SIDEWALKS for God’s sake, utilizing the revenues from the Suez canals and other national projects), so this is the only fruit left for reaping, O fasiq, coward Muslims. You are living in absolute torture, and your numbers aren’t increasing like they would have in a healthy setting. This is from the wrath of Allah on those who love dunya (and showing off with their weddings, too) more than the aakherah.

    Hey, your Western counterparts, your ‘coreligionists’ in the West, aren’t in a much better shape! See the matrimonial websites, see the divorce rate among them too, see their crasyness, men or women, see the cheap “exposed meat” lying around in the fisq-filled ISNA conferences!!!

    Specimens readily available in this blog and Tariq’s, for fisq and jahl and stupidity among Muslims. 15,000 attend ISNA’s in one city only each year, millions watch Islamic satellite channels in Egypt and neighbouring Arab nations, but still they can’t get the yoke of the stupid culture off their necks. Ok, leave it on, and taste the bitter taste of social ills and personal problems, face Allah with your fisq and jahl in the Hereafter after you’ve replaced His Law with that which you invented. No pity for those who prefer the stupid laws of men over the Superior Law of his Creator.

  2. You have hit such an important issue, particularly the example of Egypt – as this is a such a growing problem. I tihnk quite a lot of the problems come top down, but equaly (if not more) the cultural problems in the society. So a guy, if he doesnt have a shaqqa (apartment) then he isnt likely getting married soon (or moving in with his legally married wife), or the ridiculously high mahr (dowry). Most folks in Egypt are poor and the economic situation doesnt help either. Sex education is ridiculous, so many women almost do not know the first thing about the first night. I think the Islamic groups really need to push on this agenda and try and make educating the young easier. Sexually frustrated guys walking the street, is not a healthy sign at all (look at they way they ogle at western women, as if shakira came to visit!). I dont agree with free-mixing per se (it does happen a lot in Egypt and Muslim countries), but I do believe education in schools need to be sorted out and religiously guided education on marriage/sexual relationship for couples should be encouraged.

    Yes the west isnt better – but Muslim countries should fair MUCH better than the west, and be great examples.

  3. Great piece Umar. I’m living in Egypt right now and what the article says about marriage being absurdly difficult is dead on. And I will not recount to you the comments I as a woman get on the street.

  4. Heh, you’re tellin’ me? I can’t get married because my wedding has to be ridiculous (by my standards, anyway), and we couldn’t afford ridiculous if we didn’t eat for a year at this point. I remember my cousins did a simple ceremony on a shoestring budget. There was a romantic touch – they released two white doves. I’m jealous of them, in a good way.

    The standards just suck.

  5. In the past, when I’ve commented on this sort of post, it has been only to defend my Muslim brothers against what I saw as shameless slander by others…sadly, I now have reason to believe it’s not all made up (not all the time anyway)

    I was in Ethiopia recently and became a regular customer of an internet kiosk across the road from my hotel. Also staying in the hotel was a large contingent of young African men (approx. 40-to-50). They all appeared pious and wore Islamic dress, beards etc.

    A few days after I started using the internet kiosk, the owner told me she had thrown above mentioned men out of her kiosk and asked them not to return. The reason? They were interested only in porn sites.

    And the worst thing is, you’ll never guess who these guys were. Or perhaps I should speak for myself (since I seem to be the one in denial about the extent of this problem). I asked one of the guys one morning at breakfast who they were and what they were doing there….THEY WERE STUDENTS OF THE ISLAMIC UNIVERSITY OF MADINAH:-(

    They were in transit back to uni and came from: Uganda (the guy I talked to), Rwanda, Burundi, Congo (A large part of the group spoke French so the Francophones must have made the majority of the group)…and Angola (of all places)

    How very sad to think these guys could one day be Imams in our mosques and teach dyin to our kids.

    To be fair though, the kiosk owner did say 98% of all her customers (mostly Ethiopian non-Muslim men) used the internet for exactly the same thing. She called it a disease and was outraged that in a country where half the population is starving, men should want to spend what little money they could earn this way…

    I found myself wondering whether for some of the guys converting to islam (and am guessing being paid to study deen in Madinah) was not just a way out of grinding poverty and violence. I’ve heard of people pretending to be Christians so they could be resettled in the states, so why not ther other way round also…

  6. When I had my blog I used to see the most outrageous searches that brought people to my blog. Most were from the Middle East, the majority of those from Saudi, and the usual search was “naked Arab sex hardcore”.

    Dowries and other issues are getting crazy. Do these women and their families wonder why they cannot get married? Maybe if they sit and think about $25,000 dowries and $150,000 weddings they know why their local men go to Morroco and marry some poor 15 year old Morrocan girl whose family will part with her for $500.

  7. To be fair, there is a flip side to the dowry issue. It’s not all greedy women and their fathers. In a society like Egypt, there are endless cycles of exploitation and abuse. The President abuses the business leaders. The business leaders abuse the workers. The workers abuse their wives. The wives abuse the bowwab (doorman). And the bowwab abuses the children begging in the streets.

    The dowries also have a defensive element, because fathers need to be sure that their daughter will be taken care of, and not just used.

    I agree that it is a major problem, but you have to understand the imbalance on both sides and not just blame the women. Cheap dowries could very well cause a new range of social problems.

  8. Yoooooooooo,
    I’ve seen this problem in Morocco and Egypt. Also, as far as dowries, it depends on class. I’ve heard of poor Egyptian girls being sold off to Gulf Arabs.
    Both Egyptian and Moroccan cultures have ridiculously lavish weddings and high unemployment rates. Both cultures have cafes packed with unemployed sexually frustrated unmarried men. In Morocco, which actually is more open with Western dressed and hijab wearing women, a woman in hijab is subject to less harrassment. But sometimes she gets it. There are far more hijab wearing women in Egypt and they say nasty things to hijab wearing women. In Yemen, any woman who walks the street, whether she is in hijab or wearing niqab, or even has children and wearing niqab is considered a prostitute.

    I didn’t spend much time in cyber cafes in Egypt. But on several occassions I have been in a cybercafe in Morocco and some guy is just sitting there watching porn. I mean, hard core porn. Plus European sattelites broadcast porn. When I was in Meknes, I always found that the t.v. in the lounge was always accidently left on the porn station. HA!

  9. Dude, no offense…but you seem a little pre-occupied with SEX! Are you married? Are your needs not being met? Perhaps you should find a halal outlet….

    About the blog – very interesting!

  10. I remember one time that I had gone to visit my arab friends, they were watching a female tennis match. I was wondering in my head why did they care about tennis (it’s not like arabs are a big fan of the sport). I quickly realized after watching a few minutes of the game that the only reason they had tuned in to watch the tennis match was that once in a while, you could see the tennis players skirts fly and expose their underwear.

    Anyway, by the way, it’s not only the men who watch porn. Some of the women do too.

  11. “…on several occassions I have been in a cybercafe in Morocco and some guy is just sitting there watching porn. I mean, hard core porn. Plus European sattelites broadcast porn. When I was in Meknes, I always found that the t.v. in the lounge was always accidently left on the porn station. ”

    You have no idea what a shock it’s for me to hear this. I must surely live in another planet for I have never, and I mean never, seen anyone watch porn. Just like I’ve never seen any drugs in my life, and until recently didn’t know cannabis smells like. And that’s despite 17/18 years of continuous education. I suppose that’s what you get for choosing to read mathematics at university instead of something more interesting and fun, like psychology.

  12. I’m confused at the ‘statistic’, the ‘influence’, the ‘verdict’: the Al Ahram reporter correctly notes problems with globalisation, high rates of unmarried men, but implies the ‘women’ are unaffected by the sexual trends. Why Egyptian men are unable to get a ‘hard-on’ is a puzzle (an Egyptian sister I’m close to noted this too), but marriage may not ‘solve it’, and in any event the ‘China’ example (20% before and 70 % after liberalisation now have premarital sex) suggests that what is happening in the Middle East is of global consequence. If so, then the solutions are not ‘simple’. Even here (Europe & US) change has been exordinary. Homosexuals in the 6os (UK) were on ‘psychiatric wards’; few encountered ‘lesbians’; ‘trans-gender’ , ‘tran-sexual’ were simply meaningless terms. The norm was a ‘man’ and a ‘women’ and ‘sex’ before marriage was a ‘student thing’. This was the 60s; and Egypt, ironically, had an open ‘sexual scene’ then as well as before (Egypt under the British was no different or under the Ottomans). We do an injustice to the land of the Pharohs and the comments here about Misr fall into a flippant perception about the country’s past (the Al Ahram reporter has his own axes to grind). The Cairo of the past was not, like today, of baladi origins; it was a cosmopolitan and sexually permissive society which changed once Sadat allowed the Constitution to change (article 1) which gave a voice to Islam as understood by the men from the small towns and the men in Al Azhar. Today’s problems can equally be traced to this period and not, as the chrous humms here, to the ‘backwardness’ of the Middle East (or Egyptian men).

  13. These days Arabs only care about sex that’s it. No one discusses about seeking knowledge or finding out what new in the world of science and technology or other topics. This is because most Arab newspapers[with the exception of Qudis Al Arabi] are tools of corruption bend on destroying the youth by promoting the idea that we don’t get enough sex or the women are upset or some other bullshit that is only wasting our time.

    Why don’t these stupid newspapers such as the ahram of Egypt and the sharaq al Awast [which my opinion is the Satan’s mouth piece n the Middle East] try utilizing their time in something productive like exposing the abuses of power in government or engaging the public in the idea of genuine reform [Independent Court systems, prisoner abuse, torture in jails, economic reform, freedom of speech and many good practices that will uplift the societies rather than asking more of the wrath of Allah[swt] by destroying what mercy is left to us.

    All of you are speculating about something we don’t even have eyes on, people in the Muslim world are more worried about if the food prices are going to increase tomorrow or if the secret police is going drag their sons or daughters and throw them into the dungeons[Muslim term of a prison] because simply son’s bread was to long for the rulers to handle or their daughters decided to wear hijab and other major abuses that happen everyday whether we find out through word of moth or its somehow by luck seen in print in one of those fine” Government newspapers”.

    Dam…. You guys and I are nothing than a bunch of liberals and cowards [and yes to the ones who hate me see… I refuted my own self for once] who just so happen to be living in the west and enjoying the sweet scent of freedom. While Muslim women and men are getting raped by kafirs or members of corrupted deviant regimes all you care about why do Muslim men love porn?

    If Arab men want to have unlicensed sex and engage in wild orgies then they should immigrate to the Babylon [the Western world] and get hold of the many fine prostitutes and sluts that more available than affordable healthcare.

  14. When I visited Egypt, I visited the homes of three young couples (in my generation), two middle aged couples (my parents’ generation), and one widowed old woman. These were all apartments, some owned by the occupant and some “rented” (although renting there implies something far more long-term than in the US). I was fascinated to see that the homes of the young couples were furnished like palaces, with marble floors, french provincial furniture, crystal chandeliers, brocade curtains lining the walls (whether there was a window or not!), and so on. These were one-income middle class families, including the homes of a teacher, a lawyer, and a furniture builder. I’ve been told that no man (at least in these circles…I don’t know about other social classes) could hope to get married without having fully furnished a home like this. Meanwhile, the homes of the older people were far simpler. Imagine that a young man who wants to get married must first secure and furnish a home far more elegant than what his parents have been able to acquire after an entire lifetime of work! Having been happily married for five years in a home furnished mostly in particle board, I can say these people are losing out, and I can only pray that they come to their senses.

    “If one comes to you seeking marriage, and you are satisfied with his deen and character, marry him: otherwise, a fitnah and great destruction will become rampant on earth.”

  15. @Abu Sinan

    “I dont know, one of the biggest pot smokers I have ever met in my life was in my Diff Eq. class.”

    Hahaha…lol!

    You just gave me an idea:

    All those days that I thought the terrible stench in my undergrad maths class enamated from the male students shoes…it was the smell of pot the whole time, I was just clueless about it :-)

    Did eng. stdnts have to do PDEs as well, or just ODEs? I thought you guys only needed to worry about Fourier Series and Laplace Transforms -but yes, I remember eng. stdnts used to attend some of my maths modules.

  16. Phoenix,

    The reason why media like Asharq al Awsat do not speak up about the curruption in goverment is because almost all of these media sources are owned by members of the goverment or establishment.

    My wife and I know the editor in chief of Asharq al Awsat and his wife and kids. He was appointed to his job by the prince that owns the paper. He is a tool of the Saudi government and would say whatever he was told to say.

    He in the USA, with his experience and credentials he would be a reporter. Because of his connections and his family name he is appointed to be the editor in chief of one of the biggest papers in the Arabic speaking world.

    There you go.

  17. Saggal,

    I dont know. I am one of those guys who always is smelling good, showers and cologne will do that to you. Then again, I am not the stereotypical geeky maths or engineering type.

    Most engineering programs here in the US require Diff Eq. which covers the basics, PDEs, ODEs, DDEs and the like.

    I believe all ABET accredited schools require it. At my job you must have Diff Eq. If you dont have it, they wont hire you, with or without an engineering degree.

    I even took fuzzy logic although I dont need it doing what I am doing at the moment.

    Engineering degrees seem to be pretty similar from school to school. The big variable comes into programs that list themselves as “Computer Engineering Tech” or “Electrical Engineering Technical degree” which almost seem to be engineering “light” programs.

    “Information technology” programs almost went straight into the “do not consider” file here when I helped with the hiring because they require little or no maths at all, let alone advance physics and the like.

    We did hire some comp. sci guys but the managers didnt like it. They didnt have the maths and were limited in what they could do. Why hire them when you could get a EE who had the math and might be able to work in more areas.

    I think the comp sci guys end up in networking and databases and even there they dont last long.

  18. @Abu Sinan

    “I am one of those guys who always is smelling good”–something quite rare in the maths world, assuming this was the case in your student days.

    I did maths (major)+comp. sc (minor) followed by MSc. in Mathametical Finance which is just a branch of applied maths (lots of stochastic calculus, numerical methods, continuous-time finance etc)

    I absolutely love maths but sometimes wish I’d read Literature+History. Maths is such a conversation killer, a lot of people seem to believe the mere mention of the word “maths” around them is signal for them to bolt off (is that english?)at the speed of light-blue lightning, or start yawning like a tired harlot (excuse my French). Mention of Descartes only makes people think “Cogito ergo sum” (the philosopher), not “Cartesian Algebra” (the mathematician).

    Comp.sc students at my uni were required to take “Discrete Maths” modules but most were rubbish at it and struggled.

    Don’t know why anyone would want to do “Information technology” -it doesn’t seem to be sufficient for anything at all.

  19. I agree with you on the Information Technology thing. I did a post on my old blog about being careful about which degree you decide to get. Some might seem easier, ie Information Technology, but could really limit the range of jobs you can get.

    We have a lot of Muslim female engineers were I work. Two in hijab on my floor alone. One does satelite work and the other is a new Hispanic convert to Islam and is a EE who works with disc drives. Another Bengali girl a floor down is a EE doing telephony stuff.

    Smart women are awesome.

  20. Abu Sinan,
    “My wife and I know the editor in chief of Asharq al Awsat and his wife and kids”

    Are you refering to Al Rasheeed the well known Saudi secularist intellectual and journalist.

    He is the reason why i refer it that newspaper to satan’s mouthpiece.

    If you want independent news in the Arab world try Al Qudis al Arabi which is issued from London,England.

  21. I dunno, but whenever I had conversations with young Moroccans when I visited the country two and three years ago, they mentioned the economic challenges that prevented them from getting married and establishing themselves after they graduated from school. Some of us Americans are interested in Mid East culture because a lot of ME immigrants to America import their cultural baggage and impose it hapless converts. Otherwise, I would mind my own business.

  22. Pornography is becoming more mainstream in America, and the smut peddlers are trying their best to get people hooked onto this sickness. You have to wonder why what would be considered “premium content” here would be available for free in the Middle East and India/Pakistan on satellite. I don’t think they’re providing billions of dollars worth of free programming as charity. Materialism rears its ugly head again. If they want million dollar dowries, they’re selling them, so let them keep their daughters. Theres plenty of decent people who wont fall into this sort of greediness and just want good matches for sons and daughters.
    That being said, anybody who thinks that pornography is a safe and private release for repressed males needs to be hit in the head with a hammer. If that were the case, rapes would be non-existent as well as other paraphelias common in parts of the world where smut is readily available.
    And Drima, you’re no thinker, you’re an idiot with delusions of grandeur. Seriously, grow up.

  23. If that were the case, rapes would be non-existent as well as other paraphelias common in parts of the world where smut is readily available.

    If that is the case why have so many (usually burqa-clad) Afghan women been raped by thugs working for one or other of the Afghan warlord factions?

    Rape is primarily a violent crime and only secondarily a sex crime.

  24. Musa,
    Have you read that study where they found that the higher the dowry, the more stable the marriage. In America, lots of shady brothers marry hapless sisters who don’t know their Fiqh. I’ve heard of a dowry of $1 dollar which was given back, I’ve even heard of a brother giving a banana for a dowry. This one sister was promised a hajj trip for a dowry. He never took her but he went five times. Sorry to say, but what man pronounces “I divorce thee!” at the drop of a kufi if he “invested” $10 K in his bride?

  25. Margari,
    No woman deserves a $10K dowry. Even the Lady of World’s Women, the Prophet’s wife, didn’t receive a dowry worth mention from such a prominent man as Ali ibn Abu-Talib. He dowry was a mere war shield Ali was using in battles, and she’s who she is: the Prophet’s (the Master of Mankind’s daughter).

    Most of you women of today maybe should be the ones to give the man this war shiled, to guard him from your tongues and wickedness. Hahaha. Those who exemplify the Islamic akhlaq from amongst you aren’t more than those who do so from amongst men. And the man in your story, the idiot who promised hajj but never send his woman to it, also doesn’t know his fiqh: the Prophet told us that the one covenant most worthy of fulfillment is that which a man made lawful a woman’s (…).

    Most of you on this blog and Tariq’s lack basic fiqh and knowledge of the world you’re so fond of (in hate and love), the Arab / Muslim world, and the immigrants living amongst you and which you backbite everynow and then..aren’t even any better than you.

  26. @Hussam Hariri,

    Its not time to make a change,
    Just relax, take it easy.
    Youre still young, thats your fault,
    Theres so much you have to know.
    Find a girl, settle down,
    If you want you can marry.
    Look at me, I am old, but I’m happy.

  27. @Hussam Hariri,

    I’m sorry I didn’t mean to make fun of you -pls forgive me, but I feel your way is no way to make dawah. If we followed your definition of a Muslim there’d be no Muslims left in the world.

  28. Phoenix “Are you refering to Al Rasheeed the well known Saudi secularist intellectual and journalist.”

    Ah, the current editor in chief of Asharq al Awsat is a guy named Tariq al Homayed. My wife and I know him and his wife Manal. Although I must state I dont know them that well at all, but my wife does.

    They fled the US in the days following 9/11.

    Asharq is put out in London. Tariq has a rather nice life in Kensington London compliments of the Prince and his paper.

    http://www.asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=10109

  29. Margari,

    I have heard of men divorcing women who were paid more than $10,000 for dowry. I guess it all depends on who you know. For some $10,000 is a drop in the hat and doesnt matter, for others this isnt the case.

    I dont think keeping a marriage together because of a high dowry is a good idea anyways. So the guy cannot divorce her, so he beats her instead. This is almost like the old lie “we want to stay together for the children”.

    That is a receipe for a miserable life for everyone involved.

  30. “For some $10,000 is a drop in the hat and doesnt matter, for others this isnt the case.”

    Yes, it’s all relative; what might seem like a lot to some, will only be loose change to others. Anyway, $10,000 (£5,000) sounds like very little money to me and I don’t say so b/c am rich, am not, and, before anyone thinks I’m the type that worships $$$, can I just say that I’d take this Emily Dickinson poem anyday for my mahr over any amount of money:

    I gave myself to Him-
    And took Himself, for Pay,
    The solemn contract of a Life
    Was ratified, this way-The Wealth might disappoint-
    Myself a poorer prove
    Than this great Purchaser suspect,
    The Daily Own-of LoveDepreciate the Vision-
    But till the Merchant buy-
    Still Fable-in the Isles of Spice-
    The subtle Cargoes-lie-At least-’tis Mutual-Risk-
    Some-found it-Mutual Gain-
    Sweet Debt of Life-Each Night to owe-
    Insolvent-every Noon-

  31. DrM,

    “And Drima, you’re no thinker, you’re an idiot with delusions of grandeur.”

    Awwwww how cute of you, it’s too bad that you don’t have a sense of humor.

    But hey, Masha’allah. You’re such a great example of a true Muslim, calling a person you don’t even know “idiot”.

    Gee, thanks. I feel so honored. Got any more “hurtful” insults for me? Please, I’m dying to hear more.

  32. Did I hurt your wittle neocon feelings, Drima? Too bad. I think anyone who finds the spread of pornography a good thing, and uses slogans from the 1960s to justify its spread in the East is fairly idiotic.
    Cry me a river.

  33. I’m not saying dowries should be high, but it may be a practical move for some fathers to protect their daughters. I have heard horror stories from east and west about pseudo-religious brothers running game to do things more “sunnah” only to play the woman.

    The problem is really all the no-good-men and no-good-women, and the difficulty of figuring out who is who.

  34. DrM, you just proved your ignorance with that little cute comment of yours.

    Maybe you didn’t read this on my blog’s sidebar:

    “WARNING: I’m very sarcastic!”

    Maybe you didn’t even notice that the post was filed under:

    “Silly Me”

    Or maybe you just like spitting the word neocon at people you don’t even know just for the fun of it.

    I’m Muslim. My position is strongly anti-porn.

    Grow up. Humor isn’t a bad thing. Laugh a little.

    Got any more insults? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

  35. I actually thought your article was pretty funny Drima. I wouldn’t get to worked up about drm. Some people have no sense of humor and are very easily threatened by the thoughts of others.

    What exactly is the whole point of a dowry in muslim marriages anyways btw and would a muslim man still give a dowry to a nonmuslim woman if he married her? To me it kind of sounds like your purchasing a piece of livestock or something. I really don’t see the point quite frankly. On some other site some guy said it demonstrated your commitment to the woman. Which seems rather farfetched if the divorce rates in the muslim world, which are pratically equal to that of Europeans/americans in some parts, are any indication

  36. Sarcasm requires wit, Drima. You just don’t have any. Humor requires you to be funny. You’re not. Anybody who links to lgf and morons like self-proclaimed “Sand Monkey” is a neocon as far as I’m concerned. “Submittors,” sycophants…its all game.
    Dowry is a form of security for the woman, Dario. Excessively high dowries are discouraged in Islam.

  37. Dario, How is a Muslim man giving a woman he desires to marry a dowry any different than a non Muslim man spending (the norm in America is AT MINIMUM TWO MONTHS SALARY) on the engagement ring? And it better NOT be a hope ring (as in hope you can see the diamond w/out a magnifying glass! Then add the cost of the wedding band.

    This always cracks me up, when non Muslims says Muslim men are purchasing their wives, Ya’ll are doing the same!

  38. Well, if you must know, I find the concept of an engagement ring just as idiotic as a dowry. They are basically the same thing. Stupid, outdated, and pointless. DrM says its for the woman’s security. Right. I’m sure doing Hajj together will go a really long way when they get a divorce 5 years later like every other married couples in the world.

    On the other hand, since the majority of people who are or have been married marry and then divorce, marry and then divorce and than marry a couple more times they can technically rack up quite a bit of money, rings, and Hajj trips. Now that would give a woman some security. Or she could just get off her ass and get a job

  39. The majority of people who get married get divorced? Where is this exactly?
    You sound like you’re broke or a cheap skate afraid of commitment. I guess porn is more affordable for you.

  40. Saggal said, “Just like I’ve never seen any drugs in my life, and until recently didn’t know cannabis smells like. And that’s despite 17/18 years of continuous education. I suppose that’s what you get for choosing to read mathematics at university instead of something more interesting and fun, like psychology.”

    Well I spent the majority of my life (until age 26) as a nonMuslim in AMerica. I majored in Forensic Psychology, used to go to clubs, hang out in the city. Today at 34, I still haven’t seen any drugs, excluding alcohol and cigarettes (nicotine) which we have all seen if we’ve ever been inside a 7/11 and coffee. College and University campuses are rampant with drugs.

    In what was predominately white upper middle class Long Island in the 80s, you’d would find many of the youth, rich white European American youth using drugs – smoking pot, sniffing coke. If you went to any LIRR station during rush hour you’ll find the white business men smoking pot before getting into their cars. Yes, from what I’ve told some of the pot is laced with heroine. To this day alcohol is still sold on the LIRR during rush hour.

    Yes, it’s all about your environment, but if you’ve seen a bottle of wine or beer, or cigarette…. DRUM ROLL, you’ve seen drugs sweetheart. Seriously, I know you’re speaking of hardcore drugs (crack, heroine), at 34 living in the hood these still, alhumdulillah, haven’t been exposed to. Or maybe I have, but I don’t even trust multivitamins or prescription medication LOL

  41. “at 34 living in the hood these still, alhumdulillah, haven’t been exposed to.”

    Well, it’s good to know am not alone then.

  42. M.A.V

    I challenge you to write ONE sentence that does not contain a swear, curse-word or other outrageous insult. JUST ONE. And you can’t cut and paste it from somewhere else.

    Clock is ticking now……GO!…….

  43. well, I have just found your really good blog..and do not really know if you heared the story from a muslim arabic young man view -Egyptian by the way- but here I will go anyway.

    Psychologically..Supression is the active conscious cessation of thought and behavior regarding some idea or some issue. But a very important issue is “Who is the suppressor”
    When I do not drink wine because my father will be angry is a supressor..and when i do not drink because Allah SWT won’t accept this is another supressor.
    One of the miracles of Islam religion (that i see it cleary from personal experience and from observations) is Islam supression does not cause the famous psychic traumata that every one faces with other forms of supression..
    I believe, that what is happening in the Arab contries is just because religion is being took as a HABIT a social habit..not related to the Faith in the hearts…in other words…”You will obey the orders wether your heart accepted it or not and you gonna be beaten for doing the opposite”, Thats why Supression side effects started to be shown.

    Another issue.. is forcing what Allah SWT does not order…”in my personal view point actually”, I can see this in some Gulf contries, aslo hrere in Egypt but it is clearly shown there. Women are mis regaded there..and there is a sort of “male”ization of the comunity.

    At last..here in Egypt, it is not objected to see a porn video as much it is objected to approach the marriage step before having 500,000 LE.

    Wafa

  44. Allaah save us. I’d like to point out that guys aint the only ones who do it. At the same time – *sigh* how I hate porn.

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