BREAKING NEWS: Men prefer attractive women

CNN is reporting in this article that men actually prefer an attractive woman…

Science is confirming what most women know: When given the choice for a mate, men go for good looks.

That is oversimplifying it a bit. I would re-word it to say that the FIRST thing a man goes for is looks. It is what draws him to her. It is not like men throw everything else out.

Their study involved 26 men and 20 women in Munich, Germany.

Participants ranged in age from 26 to their early 40s and took part in “speed dating,” short meetings of three to seven minutes in which people chat, then move on to meet another dater. Afterward, participants check off the people they’d like to meet again, and dates can be arranged between pairs who select one another.

Speed dating let researchers look at a lot of mate choices in a short time, Todd said.

Wow, the “speed dating” session sounds almost like what I heard happened at the ISNA marriage session. I bet the results at ISNA (if it were a study were hardly different)

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57 thoughts on “BREAKING NEWS: Men prefer attractive women

  1. Haha, breaking news
    I wonder what other qualities ranked high on the list? Cooking skills, less likely to nag? But on the real, that study isn’t very scientific. Very small sample size. The social psychologists I know run sample studies with much larger pools. At least you could get something that is representative of the population. Don’t even get me started on Germany. I was laid over in Frankfurt, blech. Sorry Abu Sinan but even you looked elsewhere to find a wife.

  2. Margari,

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I was born in a city right outside Frankfurt.

    I guess it depends on what you want. If you like tall white blond, blue eyed women, Germany is the place for you, with Sweden, Demark and Norway being very good as well.

    If you like dark hair, dark eyes and darker skin, then Germany isnt the place to go, unless you head to some of the Turkish neighborhoods.

    I found the best looking women in Germany are in Berlin where there is a real mix of cultures and peoples.

    Me? I like dark hair, eyes and skin, so the Middle East was where I went looking, although I found my Middle Eastern lady right here in Northern Virginia. Imagine going thousands of miles to look for a wife and you find her right here?

    Anyway, for me looks isnt everything. Looks, like everything else, fade with time. For me it is about finding a complete package. Someone who offers a lot in all of the areas that are important to you, not just looks.

    Of course I thought my wife was good looking, but I thought she was smart, funny, she could hold a good conversation. She had good morals, good ideas and some ambition.

    Looks are important, but sooner or later you have to talk to the person and if what you like about the person extends no farther then looks you are in trouble.

  3. As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,

    There is actually an academic prize called the Ig Nobel prize which is handed out to seemingly bizarre research like this. The organiser, Marc Abrahams, has a column in the Education supplement to the Guardian; have a look at his column in yesterday’s paper.

  4. @“speed dating” session

    as’salaamoo alaykum,

    speed dating sessions are currently all the rage amongst non-muslims so it seems muslims have picked up on and are implementing the trend.

    I also read about another dating trend…some type of lock-key parties, where you sign up for a party in xx city and are given a lock or key(kinda vague on how it goes). I think all the women are given locks and the guys are given keys. At this party you walk around meeting people and the guy tries his key in every girl’s lock(lol, I reread and thought it sounded freaky). I forgot what happens after a guy unlocks a particuliar girls lock. It just seems with all the schemes being created to meet someone, muslims aren’t the only ones have a hard time finding good companionship.

  5. Sugarfoot…. guess I better break out the Mascara, lipstick, blush and red pumps… better yet I better call the plastic surgeon. LOL

    Indeed beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I am more refreshing to my beloved Ahmad than an evening spent in a posh oxygen bar.

    Oh how my love reminds me of Solomon’s Song…

    Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth— for your love is more delightful than wine.

    Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out.

    Beloved
    How right they are to adore you!

    Dark am I, yet lovely, {Can’t I get a Takbir?}

    Lover
    I liken you, my darling, to a mare harnessed to one of the chariots of Pharaoh.

    Your cheeks are beautiful with earrings, your neck with strings of jewels.

    Beloved
    My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts.

    My lover is to me a cluster of henna blossoms from the vineyards of En Gedi.

    Lover
    How beautiful you are, my darling!
    Oh, how beautiful!
    Your eyes are doves.

    Beloved
    How handsome you are, my lover!
    Oh, how charming!
    And our bed is verdant.

    Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest is my lover among the young men. I delight to sit in his shade, and his fruit is sweet to my taste.

    My lover is like a gazelle or a young stag.

    Lover
    How beautiful you are, my darling!
    Oh, how beautiful!
    Your eyes behind your veil are doves.
    Your hair is like a flock of goats
    descending from Mount Gilead.

    Your teeth are like a flock of sheep just shorn,
    coming up from the washing.
    Each has its twin;
    not one of them is alone.

    Your lips are like a scarlet ribbon;
    your mouth is lovely.
    Your temples behind your veil
    are like the halves of a pomegranate.

    Your neck is like the tower of David,
    built with elegance;
    on it hang a thousand shields,
    all of them shields of warriors.

    Your two breasts are like two fawns,
    like twin fawns of a gazelle
    that browse among the lilies.

    Until the day breaks
    and the shadows flee,
    I will go to the mountain of myrrh
    and to the hill of incense.

    All beautiful you are, my darling;
    there is no flaw in you.

    Come with me from Lebanon, my bride,
    come with me from Lebanon.
    Descend from the crest of Amana,
    from the top of Senir, the summit of Hermon,
    from the lions’ dens
    and the mountain haunts of the leopards.

    You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride;
    you have stolen my heart
    with one glance of your eyes,
    with one jewel of your necklace.

    How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride!
    How much more pleasing is your love than wine,
    and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!

    Your lips drop sweetness as the honeycomb, my bride;
    milk and honey are under your tongue.
    The fragrance of your garments is like that of Lebanon.

    You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride;
    you are a spring enclosed, a sealed fountain.

    Your plants are an orchard of pomegranates
    with choice fruits,
    with henna and nard,

    nard and saffron,
    calamus and cinnamon,
    with every kind of incense tree,
    with myrrh and aloes
    and all the finest spices.

    You are a garden fountain,
    a well of flowing water
    streaming down from Lebanon.

    Beloved
    Awake, north wind,
    and come, south wind!
    Blow on my garden,
    that its fragrance may spread abroad.
    Let my lover come into his garden
    and taste its choice fruits.

  6. Can’t respond very well to this question but want to know if the ‘eyes of the beholder’ principle sits well with the hadith which expressly states ‘beauty’ is an essential principle in choosing a wife? If so, then a range of philosophic and common-sense questions arise: is beauty ‘universal’, are some women from some countries better than others, and if beauty exists, in this sense, then what is ‘ugly’ & among the nations of the earth what ones produce the most unattractive women (excluding Germany of course)? There are some very interesting comments on this question in the books of fiqh and the Muqaddima. They are very un-PC in conclusions.

  7. All true but healthy women are like pizzas; it’s pretty hard to find one that doesn’t look at least a little appealing.

  8. Margari said, “Hmmm, then niqab is the great equalizer….”

    I don’t think so, as stated by one sister, ” I have heard quite a few horror stories about brothers thinking their wives looked one way before nikah, and after marriage/ consummation, the brother left the house and never returned!

    Or, that brothers are actually expecting Beyonce in a hijaab? Wa la hawla wa la quwatta illa billah. Meanwhile, brothers aren’t always doing what it takes to hold up their end, be it the financial, or even their physical appearance?”

    Words which finally silenced me, as I assumed a man knew what his wife looked like prior to marriage.

  9. Maybe if it’s a full-face niqaab. But even the largest abaya will not hide more than 15 or so extra pounds (depending on how tall you are)

    And there are some women who look prettier with Niqaab (those that leave the eyes uncovered) than without it. I had a friend who was masha’allah very pretty, but her eyes were her standout feature. In a half-niqaab that was all you saw so she was even more attractive while wearing it.

    Anyways, aren’t brothers supposed to be able to see your complete face + hair before the actual wedding?

  10. Yes they are supposed to see the woman, vice versa.

    Imam al Bahuti rahimahullah mentioned that Imam Ahmad rahimahullah recommended men to look for beauty first and then for deen. His reasoning was if you found a woman with beauty and no Islam and you decided to move on to the next possibility that you really are looking for the most important matter, religion. I thought that was good nasiha because I bet it is very difficult for men to find someone who masha’allah has deen and accept her if she isn’t pleasing to their eyes.

  11. Also, women can be more attractive with niqab. I think women in niqaab/khimaar are beautiful anyways! When it comes to the issue of niqab though, the only reason the eyes are left exposed is if they are needed to see the way, otherwise they are also part of the ‘awrah.

  12. These days it better for a Muslim brother to look for character before anything else. Many Muslim women these days especially with the hijab or Niqab act like Paris Hilton or Nicole Richie rather than being upon the sunnah.

    Many brother’s tend to think that if a sister is covered up that it then she’s a rose but that what it seems.

    But roses can prick you that when you find out that she’s a thorn on the side.

  13. “I guess it depends on what you want. If you like tall white blond, blue eyed women, Germany is the place for you, with Sweden, Demark and Norway being very good as well.”

    I’ll make a note of that.

  14. abdul-haqq

    Why does every Arab especially those in the Gulf love and worship the physically attributes of white women?

    I never got it…..

    Its not like most of them have good family values and all. And vice versa their women who love the sight of a whiteboys as if they were in paradise.

  15. “Also, women can be more attractive with niqab. I think women in niqaab/khimaar are beautiful anyways! When it comes to the issue of niqab though, the only reason the eyes are left exposed is if they are needed to see the way, otherwise they are also part of the ‘awrah.”

    So you’re saying, that only blind women are supposed to wear a niqaab, since all the other women are going to need their eyes so they don’t get hit by a bus or walk into walls? Help me out here?

  16. “Why does every Arab especially those in the Gulf love and worship the physically attributes of white women?”

    I’m not an Arab. I’m a white Southerner.

  17. “So you’re saying, that only blind women are supposed to wear a niqaab, since all the other women are going to need their eyes so they don’t get hit by a bus or walk into walls? Help me out here?”

    What I meant:

    A woman’s eyes are part of her ‘awrah (that which must be covered) according to the schools/scholars who consider the face ‘awrah. The only reason they are exposed is for a woman to see the road. This is what is mentioned in the explanation of the issue. She doesn’t need to bump into a huge wall.

  18. This stuff is always from a dude’s perspective-thus it bores the stuffing out of me.

    BTW -fat/plus sized doesn’t equal ugly.

  19. Another thought:

    In the end you get what you prioritize and you must be willing to live with that.

    I knew that I needed a sensitive man who could communicate with gentleness and be a great listener. His smile and his eyes conveyed safety, beauty and warmth to me. And the dude was intelligent!

    I wanted trust and honesty more than anything not just a cute dude or a brute provider. Speed dating wouldn’t have worked for me because I needed the time to get below the surface. But whatever floats your boat, right?

  20. Bint Will said : … I have heard quite a few horror stories about brothers thinking their wives looked one way before nikah, and after marriage/ consummation, the brother left the house and never returned!..

    You notice that he left AFTER the consummation, lol

  21. That’s just silliness on brothers’ part to not check out their spouse before marrying them. I’m saying niqab is a great equalizer if all women in a given culture wear it (barring internet, t.v., magazines, etc). A man may see only his mother, aunts, and sisters his entire life. So, what then becomes the beauty standard that he judges women by other than his limited experience in his family. But in Western society, we are bombarded by media and woman walking around freely.

    There are a lot of cultures that value women who are thick (African American), heavy (Bedouin) and some cultures even prefer obese women (Mauritania). Any brother that is going to be mad that his wife gained 15 pounds has issues. How’s he going to deal with pregnancy and what not? It’s not like us sisters know if a brother has a six pack or not. In fact, I see a bunch of pot bellies in dish-dashes and pajama pants shelwar kamees.

    No comment on the one eye showing to not fall into a ditch while you’re walking down the road.

  22. Even in the deen the man has a right to see the woman if his intention is marriage. I have never heard someone say that they are not allowed to see the woman’s face before marriage.

    As to the fact that Arab women/men like white people, I think this is just about opposites. Many people like what is different from themselves. I am very white, blond hair and blue eyes, yet I love dark hair, eyes and skin. There is something exotic and interesting about people different from yourself.

    I think this is natural. In Arab cultural you’ll find it is usually the men who get married to white women. Arab women find it much harder for religious and cultural/family reasons.

  23. Thanks JDsg, I have to get that. I love the Song of Solomon, it’s deep, always causes my eyes to water.

    Flaming,

    Every Rose has its thorn, so be careful. Yes we are taught to look for character, beauty is an added bonus. You are right, which is why I don’t entertain the hijab/niqaab police. I know too many covered sisters who are fornicators, have foul mouths, put children up for adoption, or had children out of wedlock and moved to anothe community faking divorce, abandonment, etc… Allah told us he looks at our hearts not the shell. A worthy man does the same when it comes to his woman, as does a woman. But a sister like me, can’t entertain a man unless he simply ravishing and has a “Body by Jake.” <—brothers invest in the Ab Scissor Ultra, some weights, cologne, and lotion (can’t stand an ashy man).

    Umm Samir,

    Sadly it is not surprising to learn a man would have sex with a woman he finds undesirable (have you seen some women when they remove their makeup, it’s scarier than Fright Night at Six Flags) hence the fruitful world of escorts and prostitutes popular in the East and West. Sex to SOME men is just that – sex, a means of temporary pleasure, so outside a woman or man they do not find attractive they’ll screw anything, including dogs, horses, goat, and sheep.

    For MOST women sex is emotional.

    Yes, a beautiful face, radiant smile, and sexy body will gain his attention…but for how long? Men are more observant than we think, it’s not about the amount of make up and kohl we have painted on our face, it’s about our dress, walk (your walk tells a lot about you. iF you are fine and lack self esteem or , overall disposition (is it pleasant or nasty?) Some even notices our quirks. The way we wear our hair, care for our feet and nails says a lot (if you neglect yourself how in the world are you going to take care of him? If you don’t love yourself how can you truly love him? Feel me?). When two people truly love each other, they can look like Who Did It And Ran, but will see nothing but beauty when looking at each other.

    I have seen some strickingly beautiful women single and lonely, and some hideous women happily married because their real beauty outshined their shell. An ugly soul will disfigure the most beautiful face. Ever wonder why some beautiful women have husband’s who cheat? or take a second less attractive wife? Yes, he needs something more.

  24. As salaamu alaykum,

    I don’t know much about gulf Arabs, but I’m an unmistakably Black woman and I’ve never lacked attention or proposals from Arabs (with greencards or citizenship I might add). This is especially true of levantines and Maghrebis. In fact, I’ve found Desis and Iranians far less likely to look my way than Arabs. While it’s true that many men across the globe have bought into the fetishization of white women I think that has more to do with symbolism than sexual attraction. And even if it doesn’t, whoop di doo. If a man prefers a white woman for whatever reason, then I wouldn’t want him because he’d be constantly dissapointed that I’m the opposite. Everyone deserves to be loved and appreciated for who they are. Frankly, I think we “sistah” sisters should stop complaining about having to compete with white women. There are PLENTY of men out there of all races who appreciate all kinds of women.

    At the end of the day, though, men love women especially pretty women and most of them would have all kinds of pretty women in many shapes, colors and sizes if given the opportunity. Especially Muslim men, who for the most part, haven’t been so desensitized and brainwashed that they still appreciate a variety of women.

  25. How did this conversation just get focused on Black women’s issues? I know a number of Arab women who are tired of “their” men getting snatched up by white women.

    Abu Sinan, I’m not sure if I buy the argument that opposites attract. Some of it has to do with Arab standards of beauty and the prestige of bringing home a Western White woman.

    Umm Ali,

    “Frankly, I think we “sistah” sisters should stop complaining about having to compete with white women. ”
    This ain’t no sport, race, or game. Any woman who takes a view point that her sisters are adversaries or spend their entire lives comparing themselves to other culture’s beauty standards and norms is setting herself up for a whole world of unhappiness. In the spirit of the comment, I think that us Black women should stop comparing ouselves to other women and just develop some self confidence, despite the negative attitudes others may hold against us.

    From my experience I agree with you that Levantine (more so Syrian and Lebanese, as opposed to Palestinian) and Maghribi (more so Algerian and Moroccan than Tunisian) seem to be more likely to show some interest in Black women than other Arabs. But on the proposal tip, I wonder how far did the proposals go? Did you meet the families? How was their response? Did the families factor in at all in the decision making. I know families can be the death bed for a budding relationship, and sometimes families destroy marriages of two people who were happy together.

    Sad truth, but I know that in some integrated areas, there are some amazing African and African American sisters who are not getting asked for. The truth is that gendered racism exists and that Black women have to be very proactive in finding a mate. For example, several immigrant women told me on several occassions that when white women coverted at an event in the Muslim Community Association in Silicon Valley, they instantly got proposals from Arab and Desi engineer types. Me on the other hand, it took two years and two friends from Oakland and D.C. told me about two brothers who were single. Oh, and there was this one brother who everyone tried to pass off to me and the other token Black sister. There were Black American Muslim men, but most of them married their girlfriends who had converted after they gave them the da’wah. I still tell my Black Muslim sisters who live in that area to get out of there. Like someone told me, if you stay in the Bay Area, you’ll never get married.

  26. as salaamu alaykum,

    Margari my words were in response to a couple people mentioning Arab preference for White women. I don’t think it’s that cut and dry at all. In my circle I know many mixed Latinas and a few African women married to Arabs and Arab women are no less upset about us taking their men than white women. I don’t think that is about White women, it’s about their (shrinking in the case of Lebanese) pool of men being snatched up by outsiders. I can’t say I don’t understand, as I –in the distant past– have been guilty of eyeing Black men with “others” the same way.

    I am from East Palo Alto, so I know well the dynamics there in the San Fran Bay Area. The Af. American brothers showed me *no* interest. One person told me they think brothas in that area are colorstruck, I don’t think that’s the case. I think there was just something about me. Anyway… In the case of two proposals, it did get to the family stage and neither family cared much about my blackness. In the other cases it never got that far. Some brothers have come out and told me their parents would through a fit and one brother assured me that his family would never care. I know full well the racism that exists amongst Muslims, before I threw in the towel I spent much blog space talking about it. I just think sometimes we attribute things to our status as converts or as Black or White people that may have to do with other issues.

  27. also, I don’t think there is a lot of prestige in bringing home western white women. Many white women (maybe even most) when “brought back home” face terrible treatment and discrimination if not from their in-laws than from neighbors and family friends. I think the prestige of having a white woman is here in America.

  28. Frankly, I don’t understand what the fuss is about. Speaking for myself I will never marry a man I am not physically attracted to, I could care less about his title and wealth. I also don’t like short men, no offense my the short brothers (5’9 and under) or men who smell musky. SOme women like the musky smell.

    On the flip side, a lot of women have serious self esteem issues and negative spirits which is a turn off. When we realize every man will not find us attractive due to his preference, we’ll be happier.

    The real questions are:
    Sister, do you know YOU are beautiful?

    What else do you have to offer a man besides a cute face, big butt, thick thighs, and warm smile?

    What will make him run home from work and the masjid TO YOU!? In other words, what can he get from your that he can’t get from (or find in) another woman? What’s special and unique about you? Sorry ladies, our vaginas are not laced in gold, diamonds, or pearls. I have nine brothers, 2 are tramps and they have told my sister and me “it’s all the same whether she’s black, white, arab, indian, european.” yes, they are INTERNATIONAL WHORES and sadly have been with a few muslimahs.

  29. Ummali,

    Interesting, they didn’t care? I am very close with one Desi brother, he is in love with black women. His family wants him to marry white. So he refuses to marry because his family will never accept his choice.

    My other desi friend, the only handsome Pakistani man in the entire universe (he has to be mixed with something) has told me on several occasions about Pakistanis IN GENERAL being racist towards blacks and he wasn’t certain how his family would react if he married a black woman although this is his preference.

    The first Arab man I was married to, his family was split. When they met me, the said, “I thought she was American.” Meaning I thought she was white.

    The second one, is no different. He even tells me how ashamed he is of his and Arabs in general because they don’t understand Islam and are a racist.

    In Jordan and Egypt (many egyptians (AFRICAN PEOPLE LOL) of all colors have told me this), you’ll see a blue moon, solar eclipse, AND Lunar eclipse before black women are considered “prizes.”

    aaah did I tell you about the brothe who asked me to find him a wife. I asked him one simple question, “what are you looking for in a wife?” Got a simple answer… He said, “White skin.” I have this e-mail, I’m considering publishign a book of RanDUMB things we say

  30. Margari,

    You write “I’m not sure if I buy the argument that opposites attract. Some of it has to do with Arab standards of beauty and the prestige of bringing home a Western White woman.”

    Would the same go for African American men who bring home a white woman? Sometimes people make things more complicated then they really area.

    It is entirely possible that Arab men like white women because they find them attactive. I married an Arab lady, and it certainly had nothing to do with prestige or anything like that.

    Actually, being married to an Arab lady who isnt American has complicated my life a lot. But I was attracted to her, got married and I love her. Nothing more than that.

  31. margari- Isn’t one of the issues with black women having a hard time finding marriage is that black women prefer black men? As much as desi dudes dont holla at black females, it’s also that black females aren’t attracted to desi and even arab and Persian dudes. Even if they are, its more for sex. I think black girls prefer black dudes for the most part. So there’s a major “pull ” factor as well.

  32. -Beauty is beautiful.

    -Looks aren’t everything.

    -No matter how beautiful you are, there is always someone more beautiful so you need to be more than a pretty face and pilates body.

    -Some men like an extra 15lbs, there is someone for nearly everyone. Get in where you fit in.

    Now let me quote Margari:
    “This ain’t no sport, race, or game. Any woman who takes a view point that her sisters are adversaries or spend their entire lives comparing themselves to other culture’s beauty standards and norms is setting herself up for a whole world of unhappiness. In the spirit of the comment, I think that us Black women should stop comparing ouselves to other women and just develop some self confidence, despite the negative attitudes others may hold against us.”

  33. @”You notice that he left AFTER the consummation, lol”

    *chuckles*, for real though…

    sadly, I’ve heard this before, a brother hits it, then complains to the imam about looks, weight et cetera so he can get a divorce

  34. Bint Will “When they met me, the said, “I thought she was American.” Meaning I thought she was white.”

    That made me laugh, reminds me of Archy Bunker and his “regular Americans”.

  35. BintWill both of those men were levantine Arabs. I’m not that interested in Desi culture and they aren’t that interested in me, so I’ve never dealt with them in that regard. Your stories don’t surprise me, I’ve seen that side. I just know there is a different side as well, yk?

    I had a couple Iranians show interest, but that never went anywhere. I’ve never heard of religious Iranian families being too hung up on stuff like that, but that doesn’t mean much. I’m not that immersed in Iranian culture.

    Whoever made the point about Black women prefering black men, I think is pretty spot on too. I’ve known too many Black muslimat who stayed alone for years or went through one loser after another because they refused to look at anyone but an African American (not even African) man.

  36. What is the reason why some black women wont consider non black guys? Is there a racial element to it?

    Many of the reasons I have heard, from the outside of it, sound just like explainations that I have heard from some Desis and Arabs as to why they wont marry someone who isnt from their culture.

  37. Hey sisters, interesting conversation you’ve got going here. Do people actually know before hand to whom they’d be attracted, in terms of colour, race, looks etc? I never seem to know anything…I’d marry any number of guys from my work place tomorrow, especially the tall, blond, Scandinavians -trouble is, all of them without exception are 100% atheists and I have always said I’d never leave my religion for a man.

    I also get attention from Jewish men (I don’t know why). One of them was my boss a few years ago and in an attempt to try to get him to forget about me, I told him that my mum would not object to us getting married if he gave her 8 million dollars (I was kidding of course)…but he thought I was serious and invited my siblings and mum to dinner the following weekend with a view to negotiating the amount (lol…)

  38. Abu Sinan,

    A lot of black women, especially afrocentric and educated black women prefer black men. A lot of black men are this way as well. My cousin won’t even deal with a black woman who’s been “tainted” by a white, latino, nonblack man. He said these women are trash and will readily tell anyone, “No DECENT black man wants such a woman.” Yes there is a racial/cultural element to it. One being our history and struggle as blacks in America which I can understand. One huge argument my husband and I have is when he tells me I am I am being too sensitive when people ask about my history. I tend to say, aside my native American ancestry (i know too well the details, customs, of those folks but nothign of my African ancestors. For me it’s not enough to say I am a descendant of a slave or African. There are 52 countries in Africa, which one are my people from? Which tribe? Why does my father have crazy eyes (is it because somewhere along the line someone was raped or willingly had intercourse with one of the slave masters? <–small, yet significant things (who make up the woman I am) my husband and his family will never understand. He can easily say my mom is Egyptian and dad is Iraqi from such and such family/tribe.<–he knows his lineage, there are NO BROKEN chains. I on the other hand don’t have that luxury, though I was fortunate to have known my great grandparents, but what about the prior generations?

    Personally, I don’t care who marries, dates, screws whom. If the couple is happy, so am I. I’ve seen too many folks of the same ethnicity in miserable marriages.

    On the flip side, two blacks can marry yet have issues due to differences in culture. As I’ve said before when I moved from NY to DC, I experienced a huge culture shock. The differences in the mentalities of blacks in NY vs DC still amazes me.

  39. Saggal,

    Excuse me if you have mentioned this before, but what is your ethnic background?

    Anyway, as to who we would or wouldnt like, I think most people do know. It is funny but my wife knows me so well she can pick out women for me that she knew I would find attractive.

    I tell her if I ever want a second wife, I’ll let her pick.

    I like dark haired, dark eyed and dark skinned women. Usually the ones I find attractive are either Middle Eastern, from the Indian sub-continent, or Eastern Africa (Sudanese, Ethiopian, Eritrian).

    My wife always liked white guys, tall, built well, light eyes, but never gave it much thought. Like you she said she’d never leave her religion for a guy, so she resigned herself to Arab men.

    When she met me it was like hey, here is a guy who is tall, white, big, AND most importantly a Muslim. So here we are 5 years and two boys later.

    My sister in law, currently doing her Masters, likes Irish guys. Now if we can just find an Irish convert for her……….then we are set.

    An 8 million dollar mahr? Wow.

  40. Abu Sinan,

    I loved Archie Bunker. These are the folks I prefer to be around because I know how they feel about me LOL

    Archie and George Jefferson, Those were the days LOL

  41. Interesting Bint. I guess the racial elements involved in such a situation could not be compared to the reasons why some Arabs/Desis refuse to marry outside of their own race. It really isnt about race hate for most of these African Americans I guess.

    I can understand it a bit. I can trace my family back to the 1600s and the proclaimation from a monarch of one of the German states at the time which gave us our family name and made our family minor nobility. This was during one of the many religious wars of the time.

    It would be hard to not know where your family came from.

  42. Bint,

    My father, when I was a kid, banned me from watching The Jeffersons because they had an interracial couple.

    I sometimes wonder what he’d think if he knew I married an Arab? I like to think racism is based on ignorace and that if he got to know my wife and her family he would have lsot his racist ways, but I dont know.

  43. Abu Sinan- As a desi observer and having grown up in immigrant hoods, black hoods, and the suburbs… black chicks mostly don’t deal with other races because a. other races dont usually want them unless they got a fetish or theyre really good looking. b. black chicks think most other races dudes are corny. I really don’t buy the Afrocentric argument that much especially for the younger ones because their afrocentrism is not that deep. Its more superficial. And Ive seen plenty of Afrocentric bohos with white dudes with dreds to know its not true.

    A good number of desi dudes got not style whatsoever.This lack of style and lack of game with women is even more concentrated in the desi Muslim community where it is probably seen as a sign of good iman. So it shouldnt come as a surprise that black women dont like them or consider them as potential mates. Plus most desis are still recent immigrants meaning they still hold their cultural archetypes of home living in high esteeem. A lot of black women (specifically American ones) depending on if they had a father present in the household or not, cannot deal with a man being a man in a family setting. He is seen as being possessive or overbearing. This is not just desis , I know American black women that have married West Indian blacks and said that they were possessive.

    You know I don’t think these interracial marriages should be pushed that hard within Muslims. Marriage is a very fragile institution it seems in America right now and adding different cultures and all this and thinking we’ll all get along is is not too smart. At least I dont think it will happen now…another 20 years when the desis and Arab kids are fully Americanised then it might be a little more successful although not problematic.

  44. @Abu Sinan,

    I’m half-Somali and half-Eritrean. My Somali folk are from the northern most corner of Somalia, a place, a country even, called Somaliland, very far from the troubled south. Most people have trouble guessing my origins though -and I find the whole thing just so boring.

    Ethiopians think am Ethiopian and are always speaking Amharic to me…last week an Ethiopian girl got chatting to me at Dubai for that reason then we found out we were on the same flight, so there we were, the two of us walking to the Gate for our flight when we heard someone running and shouting frantically at us, it was this guy in uniform informing us that we were walking in the wrong direction that the Casablanca flight was departing at the opposite end of the terminal and they were already running late waiting for us, -He’d obviously assumed we were Moroccan..lol.

    And in June I was in front of the check-in queue at heathrow for a flight to Zanzibar via Nairobi when a couple from Zimbabwe asked if I could let them checkin before me, I didn’t mind (they’d already tried to check in but had excess luggage to sort out), they asked where I was going and I said Znz, then the lady said, yeah, they didn’t think I was going to Nairobi (meaning I looked more Zanzibari than Kenyan)…huh, if only she knew that Kenya is the one country in africa I could probably confidently refer to as “My Home Country”

  45. Abu Sinan,
    You wrote, “Would the same go for African American men who bring home a white woman? ”
    I’m not sure if you read the classic work by Frantz Fanon, the West Indian sociologist who fought alongside the Algerians in their war for independence and author of “Black Faces, White Masks” and “Wretched of the Earth.” Fanon argued that for the colonized the colonizer’s woman is the ultimate prize. Fanon, himself, had a French wife.

    I think almost all of my great uncles and half of my cousins have married white women. The other half didn’t marry the women the women, they have either baby’s mommas.

    On the flip side, Black women who marry or date interracially are looked down upon by both men and women. I also grew up with people telling me that my mother was wierd because she was with my sister’s dad who’s Dutch and Sicilian. I have even had mixed people with white mothers say my mom was wierd. You’d be suprised by the nasty looks and rude comments black men have to say when they see a Black woman with a white guy.

    Somebody earlier said that a lot of afro-centric natural and dread-locked Black women are with white guys. That’s so true!! ahahaha

    But during the Black Power movement, Black women were taught that if they dated white men that they were complicit in the rapes of their grandmother. For 400 years white men had access to black women’s bodies with impunity. It was not just slave masters who raped, but even during reconstruction and civil rights era Black women were gang raped and abused. I have heard harrowing accounts by a family member of a rape by two white police officers and lynchings. That trauma leaves an imprint. Meanwhile, Black men were lynched for even whistling at a white woman. I saw in one documentary that this one Black man marched for civil rights so they could have a taste of the “American” pie and marry a White woman.

    But I don’t think that people are driven by historical legacies. There are many factors that go into choosing mates. I’m happy if other people are happy and everyone has a right to choose who they want to choose. I know I’m going to do my own thing.

  46. ROFL @ Bang Gully.

    Fortuntely, afrocentrism has nothing to do with wearing locks (perhaps 20 years ago, not today). Heck the other day I saw BLUE Locks, it took all my strength to keep from putting old girl in a sleeper hold. I’d buy the argument if you equated it with “natural,” as in chemical free hair, then again some women like the natural look and it doesn’t mean they are afrocentric. That’s like saying a sister with a perm or weave isn’t conscious or concerned about the black community LOL. You know black folks love fashion. A few years ago black women were rocking kufis (or was it just me). I remember a brother asking me if I was muslim at the time. i told him, “no.” So he told me to take that kufi off my head, whatever that was the latest fashion trend and I looked DYNOMITE in it LOL

    Unfortunately people do not respect the dreads<—don’t get me started on the lack of respect for dreadlocks which is a part of the Rastararifan culture. If you asked the average person on the street why (s)he is wearing dreads or about the history of dreadlocks, you’d get a blank stare. I wish I had an uzi for those disrespecting the dreads.

    Those who are afrocentric are indeed serious about it, especially given it is not popular within mainstream black culture. It conflicts with Christianity and Islam as well as the stereotypical ghetto culture America ATTEMPTS to portray as black culture.

    Margari, you’re right everyone, almost everyone, has a right to chose. No one should justify to anyone why they are with whomever they’re with. One of my brothers is boney as can be, yet he loves big women<—ODD.

    I must admit you will see look of disgust on my face when a short man and tall woman are together.<–that’s not right! I wish I could ban the short man/tall woman combo.

  47. I still wonder about the stigmas around interracial relationships especially with the kids today. This may sound strange but (at least in the area I live in) the kids are having a racial free-for-all. Haha.

    In many ways, as far as black/white (aka the swirl) relationships hip-hop and Islam have had a big impact on white dudes getting with black women. We have a lot of Paul Walls and MC Serchs lovin the black girls. One of the Guyanese teen girls I worked with was all about Eminem.

    And b/c of the increasing number of young white Muslim men within largely African-American communities I’ve seen first hand that the younger African-American Muslimahs I know are less hesistant in seeking out a white brother.

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