1950s Little Green Footballs gathering

lynching1.jpg

A Gathering of heros of the likes of Robert Spencer, Charles Johnson and Ann Coulter at a lynching picnic. I bet all three of those rabid racists have this picture on their wall. “The good ol’ days!”

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392 thoughts on “1950s Little Green Footballs gathering

  1. @ Abdul Jabbar: You forget the infamous Michelle Malkin, who wrote an entire book defending the Japanese Internment.

    Here is some good news: Websense has just blocked LGF as a hate site. More about that here:

    http://digg.com/tech_news/Update_Websense_Blocking_LGF_Emails_Pouring_In

    What took them so long? Also, it’s been a while since I visited his site, but at one time he was collecting donations through PayPal; PayPal has a clause somewhere in their TOS that prohibits its use on sites promoting bigotry. In the past PayPal never responded, but perhaps things would change if more than 3 people were complaining, which was the situation a few years ago.

  2. Jihadwatch is blocked by my work. Now, I think web blocking is stupid on principle for most jobs (including my own), but if anything is gonna be blocked, I’d just as soon it was those ass bandits.

    I recently attacked Malkin on my blog but erased it since I felt I’d gone a bit overboard. Nonetheless, her “John Doe” letter should leave no doubt that these assholes hate Muslims and won’t be happy til we’re all dead or converted.

  3. Leave Kanye West alone, whether he’s Muslim or not really doesn’t matter. I’m so sick of the “famous Muslims” things going around. Anyway, though Kanye’s “special,” I applaud him for reminding that Bush doesn’t like us (Black people), and I’ll remind us (Black people), neither does the Clintons since they close the borders to our Haitian brothers and sisters when they were in need, SO DON’T VOTE for Hillary!

    Now, Muslims I hang out on LGF a lot and unfortunately, we do a lot of things for folks to hate and poke fun at us. Many of the things they discuss are things we (or at least someone who says they are Muslim) have done and/or are doing. How often do we hear kaffir this and kaffir that? I recently received an e-mail about a sister losing her children, and of course she lost them to Kaffirs (was this really necessary?) Some of us don’t understand the meaning of kaffir and how can we give dawah in that frame of mind? I can tell you I’ve seen Muslims mistreat and inconvenience others because we have that little deadly thing called, ARROGANCE. In ways we have become like the Christians, meaning we believe since we Muslims we are heaven bound, the only problem is no one died for our sins. If you ask 10 Muslims about hijab and beards you’ll get 10 different answers, is it any wonder why folks believe we are confused and misguided?

    Interesting, many Muslims hate black and Jewish people (yet it’s an issue when nonMuslims express the same hatred they have in your hearts for blacks and Jews as nonMuslims have for us – Isn’t it Ironic? (that used to be the song back in the day LOL). People are watching.

  4. Bint Will:
    We as Muslims fall very short of the mark, without question. However, as Allah t’ala tells us in the Kitab, “They will not be happy with you until they turn you from your religion, if they can.”
    The Rasul(saw) was the model of human kindness and curtosey to all, yet when his dawah began, they threatened his life, murdered his companions, boycotted their businesses, and tortured them for their faith. And these were the sahaba. Understand something, as Allah’s word is truth-EVEN IF WE WERE ALL PERFECT MUSLIMS THESE PEOPLE WOULD HATE US AND WANT TO DESTROY THIS DEAN. Which they will not do because Allah t’ala has protected it. I disagree with this “if we were better Muslims they wouldn’t hate us” attitude, because it is completely wrong according to Quran, according to hadeeth, according to history, and according to Allah subhana wa t’ala. Regardless of how pathetic the condition of the Ummah, our obligation is to combat the threat posed by those who wish to silence the light of Islam with their tongues, as well as protect the Muslims from the harm they wish to inflict upon our lives. Backbiting and slandering the Ummah all day does nothing but bring down the Iman and give more fuel for the enemies of Islam. As the Rasul (saw) said, if one can say nothing good, it is better to say nothing. And please do not take that as me attempting to silence your right to speak my sister.

  5. Abdul Jabbar, I’m not doubting that and I will be the first to say I am far from perfect and have no intentions of pretending to be. The reality is, as forewarned in the hadith… the Muslims will be shamed when we begin to imitate the Jews and Christians. Change begins at home, of course there will always be those who hate the believers, but as far as I am concerned, the biggest threat (enemy) to Muslims are… the Muslims.

    The good news is during the week, to offset the hate mail we receive, we receive many letters from nonMuslims who want to donate or support the cause because of a Muslim neighbor (who actually conducts him/herself like a civil being as we should). Same thing at the masjid where I volunteer and work, and again many nonhijabi sisters have thanked me (something I hate) for the kind way I treat them even when they are not in hijab as compared -unfortunately- to the bulk of our sisters who shout audobillah and REFUSE to return their salaams, and/or look at them with twisted faces. This is all I’m say brother, we need to check ourselves and let our lifestyle REFLECT the guidance in the Quran.

  6. btw – what are you talking about – “backbiting and slandering the ummah?” Who’s doing that? Me? by giving an example? Yes, I find it very offensive when I receive e-mails loaded with kaffir this and kaffir that. My family are not Muslims…yet and alhumdulilah the sisters I when I took I was new weren’t the kaffir this/that crew. The truth is these people do a grave injustice to Islam. These are the ones who the islamophobes seek out, as in the black community – to prove their racist stereotypes they’ll find the most ignorant black or Native American person to exploit and justify the continued dehumization of us. Allahu alim whether this is backbiting/slandering but my point remains we have to change the condition of ourselves.

  7. Abdul Jabbar, I have no doubt that you believe what you are saying. But why do you think the west wishes to destroy Islam and largely ignores a billion Hindus and Buddhists?

  8. do you guys realize that Christianity is what stopped the slave trade and eventually slavery in the west, islam is slavery.

    William Wilberforce, educate yourselves

  9. What balderdash. Do you even know where that picture was taken???? Do you realise the disservice done to the victims in that picture?

    And the comments here are even more outlandish than what you accuse others of making. Grow up and live in the real world.

  10. Yes, please do remember: white Europeans and North Americans waged war and naval blockades to end slavery, while blacks and Arabs continue to practice slavery to this day. Reality sucks, huh?

  11. Islam is not a race.
    Evil muslim Dhiren Barrot is same race as good guy Gandhi.
    Evil muslim Ibrahim Hooper is same race as good guy John Bolton.
    Evil muslim Richard Reid is same race(-s) as good guy Bob Marley.

    Muslims treat black muslims worse than the KKK ever did. Ah yes the KKK, once led by David Duke – hero of the left and islam. You are obfuscating. That’s what nazis and muslims do…

  12. The biggest enslavers of blacks have been Muslims. Muslims have killed more blacks than every other religion combined. 200,000 blacks killed by Janjaweed Muslims in Darfur alone.

  13. Pot, meet kettle (the pot calling the kettle black…get it? Should I draw a picture?).

    Funny, when people yell racism constantly, they are usually the most racist of all. You would fit in well as a Nazis collaborator in the great French tradition.

  14. You know, I’ve gone and perused the LGF site you’re raving against, and well… racist? What race? Is Islam a race now? If anything they’re religionist. Go ahead… see how much traction that term gets you.

    But if you really want to know what it’s all about, I suggest you do some searching… tally up the numbers of people “killed in the name of Christ” over the past… oh, say 50 years. Add to that the numbers “killed in the name of Buddah”. Then compare that to the numbers “killed in the name of Allah” in say 2006. Heck, the number killed in Thailand alone last month ought to do it.

    Search on LiveLeak for videos of Christian death squads… or Buddhist snipers… you can do it from your cell phone if you like, because their aren’t any.

    I suppose you’re in favor of the French laws forbidding non-licensed media from covering the riots and car burnings that have been going on regularly for years now? I suppose they’re not “racists” because they won’t identify who is running amok and destroying things?

    See… here’s the funny thing. If horrid things were not done to the West in the name of Islam, then NO ONE HERE WOULD CARE. Without the bombings and kidnappings and threats without cease, we’d all just happily ignore the Muslim world and let it do what it would.

    You want to shout me down? Yell at me? Fine. I accept that it’s the only way you can handle the situation. But I will only change my mind when I see a Catholic tour group wearing suicide vests charge into Mecca screaming “Jesus Christ is my Savior” and blowing themselves up in the marketplace.

  15. I cannot help but think of those poor guys hanging from the tree. Such evil!

    At least it gives the islamonazis a cheap giggle. It’s funny how the left and their islamic masters routinely use such racist imagery and get away with it.

    …obfuscation…

  16. Race hatred certainly plays a major rule in the hatred of Islam and Muslims. It is no coincidence that most of the “normal” racial taunts and epithets used against non whites in the West are also leveled at Muslims.

    This is also the reason for the hatred against white Muslims, because they have become “race traitors” because being Muslim just isnt a “white” thing to do.

  17. “Jihadwatch is blocked by my work. Now, I think web blocking is stupid on principle for most jobs (including my own), but if anything is gonna be blocked, I’d just as soon it was those ass bandits.”

    …it’s funny (or not…) how homophobia is now acceptable in the leftist sewer. I guess not hating gays is ‘islamophobic’ in these kerazy days…

  18. SonofMonkey,

    BOTH sides fighting in Darfour are Arabic speaking Muslim Africans, just from different tribes. Get a clue, or better yet, a history and geography book.

  19. “Islam is not a race.”

    It doesn’t matter. The statements of LGFers about Muslims are just as bad as any racist slur. Which makes it pretty much equivalent to racism.

    “Muslims treat black muslims worse than the KKK ever did. ”

    Bullshit. Islam clearly and explicitly says that all men are created equal. Also explain to me why I know a handful of black muslims that were never persecuted, and have never heard of one who was. Explain to me why I have encountered a few black Muslim Imams preaching to a large audience of non-Black Muslims. And besides that, explain to me why black Muslims aren’t segregated from other Muslims, lynched or shot on a daily basis.

    “Ah yes the KKK, once led by David Duke – hero of the left and islam.”

    You just made that up to add a bit of taste to your pathetic armchair-warrior rhetoric.

    “You are obfuscating.”

    *hands you a mirror*

  20. “Race hatred certainly plays a major rule in the hatred of Islam and Muslims. It is no coincidence that most of the “normal” racial taunts and epithets used against non whites in the West are also leveled at Muslims.”

    Really Abu, how and why did the word ‘kaffir’ become the main racial epithet in Apartheid South Africa?

  21. From statements above:
    “these assholes hate Muslims and won’t be happy til we’re all dead or converted.”
    “EVEN IF WE WERE ALL PERFECT MUSLIMS THESE PEOPLE WOULD HATE US AND WANT TO DESTROY THIS DEAN”

    Do you really believe what you are saying? Let me tell you, I’m Jewish and all I want is for everyone to live in peace. STOP TRYING TO KILL KAFFIRS and everything will be fine! I’m not interested in destroying your belief system (although I’d love to change the parts about “kill the Jews”); I’m not interested in converting anyone, no Jew is. If Muslims could learn to control themselves and act rationally instead of adhering to the pack mentality and frothing at the mouth anxious to serve Allah’s will by killing everyone, the world would be a better place. Oh..and I shouldn’t forget your egos. For the love of G-d, please learn that your egos are too fragile. The world does not owe you anything because your fragile self-image has been hurt. Criticism is a necessary part of growth. If you don’t learn from it or learn how to deal with it, Islam is going to be stuck in the Dark Ages for eternity.

  22. Jordon “I have no doubt that you believe what you are saying. But why do you think the west wishes to destroy Islam and largely ignores a billion Hindus and Buddhists”

    Because Buddhism and Hinduism are not a force that could get in the way of Western hedgemony, Islam most certainly is.

    WW2 and communism in China destroyed any militant threat from Buddhism. Hinduism is not really a global religion, rather it is isolated in certain areas and no threat.

  23. Come on all you LGF’ers. Just shut up and pay your jizyah, adorn your zunar and do what your Mujahidin overlords tell you to do. Its in the Koran. We are the vilest of creatures, the sons of pigs and monkeys. Don’t you see how muslims are the true victims when we don’t obey them?

    If I were to say, “I testify that Allah is the Moon God and Mohammad is his Pirate”, doesn’t that obviously make me a hater of the Muslim race?

  24. “Ah yes the KKK, once led by David Duke – hero of the left and islam.”

    “You just made that up to add a bit of taste to your pathetic armchair-warrior rhetoric.”

    Dear boy, just have a search for dailykos and “david duke”. It’s all there. Those anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobic heroes at LGF reported on it in full and managed to save the deleted posts.

    “Muslims treat black muslims worse than the KKK ever did.”

    I normally wouldn’t wipe my arse with Farrakhan but he has many interesting things to say about the treatment of blacks in ‘mainstream’ islam. Look em up. His interview with Spike Lee in ‘The Making of X’ is most enlightening and prompted Spike to cast all servants in Mecca as black and all respected sorts as white.

    If the Darfurians were Arab instead of black they would still be alive. But then again you don’t care do you. Because 1) you hate those ‘kaffirs’ too. and 2) like the holocaust it is all a crazy Jewish lie or something like that.

    My Britain may have succumbed to your threats and thrown in the towel but America will not…

  25. Meatrocket, you need to stop believing this myth that Islam is about killing Jews. Among the tenants of belief are that you believe in Moses and in the Torah as God’s word, and that you accept Judaism as one of three “heavenly religions” (including Christianity and Islam). We’re not even asking that you believe in Mohamed or the Quran in return. This convert-or-kill thing is also a lie. The Quran said: “There is no coercion in religion”, and “You have your religion, and I have mine”)
    So claiming that we’re all after the death of Jews is quite paradox, considering what Islam REALLY teaches. And whoever wants to kill Jews for the hell of it isn’t a real Muslim anyway. Unfortunately, being against Zionism (BIG difference between Zionism and Judaism) is always being interpreted as being against Judaism. That is simply not true. I myself reject Zionism, and respect Judaism as a religion at the same time. And there are truckloads of Muslims who think in the same way.

    Believe me, the vast majority of Muslims just wants to live in peace as you do.

  26. Abu,

    “BOTH sides fighting in Darfour are Arabic speaking Muslim Africans, just from different tribes. Get a clue, or better yet, a history and geography book.”

    This makes it OK? You still confuse Islam with a race, btw. Re-read my post. You are a liar, it isn’t a two warring parties, but genocide pure and simple. The biggest killers of Muslims have been Muslims, as you point out. Sounds like you should be getting mad at yourself and your Wahabbi terror supporters at CAIR.

    Of course, I could mention the Sudanese Civil War which was an attack by Muslims on non-Muslims.

  27. Looks like LGF took notice and is sending traffic. To all those from LGF, before you say anything, read some of Umar’s prior posts. You might be surprisingly impressed with his fair and honest approach.

    Specially this one and this one.

  28. It’s amazing to me that the Islamists and their leftie friends continue to use the most racist and vile language in their attacks on conservatives, all the while calling the conservatives racists and islamophobes. In all honesty, that picture could easily be a market in modern day Iran and the men hanging there Christians, Jews, or homosexuals. I doubt even the most rabid right-wingers in the US would advocate the murder of innocents, like so many Islamic terrorists do

  29. Sphinx,

    Why do you reject Zionism? Arabs don’t have enough land, liar? Your nations practice the brutality of the 7th century, crap in public sewers, hang gays, stone women, chop of body parts, and you get hung up on some Jews in a strip of land the size of Rhode Island. Get a life. Do you beat/stone/mutilate women? Do you think Shariah law should acceptable in the US?

  30. Listen up Seanybaby, you don’t tell me who I hate and who I don’t. Because you’re simply throwing words around, which zilches your credibility. You don’t even know me, haven’t really discussed the matter of Darfur with me and yet accuse me of hating “those kafirs”, when I clearly don’t.

    Just as a reminder, the crisis of Darfur is entirely based on Politics, and the hunger for power. The crimes against humanity commited there are a tragic side-effect. It has NOTHING to do with religion, or race, even though you’d wish it would be. Read up on the subject and get a clue.

    You stupid intolerant LGF rednecks are all the same. Throwing words around in a pathetic manner, without even thinking if they are appropriate. Keep on wallowing in your ignorance.

    In a nutshell: Screw you.

  31. Sphanus said:

    1. It doesn’t matter that Islam is not a race.

    Typical taqiyah: accept the truth, then continue to obfuscate.

    2. Bullshit about Islamic racism.

    I don’t care what the Qur’an says. Go to a majority Muslim country. See how the Turks and Arabs treat the (Muslim) Kurds and (Christian) Armenians, Assyrians and Yazidis. Oh, and the Copts. These are not isolated incidents of misguided “brothers.” This is inculcated REAL RACISM. Black Christians are killed everyday by Muslims. IT’S CALLED DARFUR, and the genocide there has been going on for over four years now. Now go to Sudan and tell them what bad Muslims they are. Islamaphobia!

    3. David Duke and Muslim wackos.

    The conspiracy-peddlers at every major state-run Arab newspaper, i.e. 99% of all Arab media, loves the fact that a white, Christian American like David Duke has spoken against Israel. They love him. Usamah bin Ladin is also very popular in the Muslim world. Don’t even try to deny this. Go to Pakistan or Indonesia. Feel the hate.

    Cheers!

  32. “Islam is not a race.”

    It doesn’t matter. The statements of LGFers about Muslims are just as bad as any racist slur. Which makes it pretty much equivalent to racism.

    Ducky post-mdernism is soooooooooo 1980s…….

  33. Seanybaby:
    I have never heard of Arabs going out and lynching Black Muslims, cutting off their genitles, or burning crosses in front of their home to terrorize them because of their race.

    This notion that all Arabs are racists is something that needs to be addressed as I see it as a constant theme of this Blog. I am African American of Carribean ancestry. I’ve lived in the Muslim world and have made my pilgremage to Mecca, Al-Humdililah. First, their is great racism practised by Arabs in the Gulf, without question. This behavior pre-dates Islam and was DIRECTLY addressed and heavily chastised by the Prophet Muhammed. However, Islam significantly curtailed these attitudes as we have much documentation of social ascendancy of Blacks to positions of leadership in Muslim antiquity. The current strain of racism we see in the Arab and Muslim world in general is more a result of the exported notions of race brought forth by white supremacy via colonialism and imperialism that the Muslim and Arab world experienced over the last 300-500 years, varying on the part of the Muslim world of which you speak. Moreover, you will find Egyptians, Morrocans, and North African “Arabs” to be highly tolerant of racial difference. And there are many Yemeni that actually look “Black”. I find the greatest degree of racism amongst Gulf Arabs. But frankly, they hold great prejudice against everyone else based on their sense of “oil” entitlement. But you find that the pious among them are beyond this. Frankly, truly good and pious Muslims are beyond much of this racism. But the truly pious believers can be hard to find.

  34. “You stupid intolerant LGF rednecks are all the same. Throwing words around in a pathetic manner, without even thinking if they are appropriate. Keep on wallowing in your ignorance.”

    I’m not sure we have ‘rednecks’ in Dublin. Perhaps you want to call me a bog-trotter or a thick paddy perhaps. Something suitably racist please.

  35. Soulcase:
    DARFUR IS POPULATED BY HIGHLY DEVOUT MUSLIM SUDANESE. THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. You’re confusing the Sudanese civil war between the North and the South with the Crisis in Darfur.

  36. SonofMonkey, I reject Zionism, because the crimes it has commited against humanity and the havoc it has wrecked in the region. If you had any idea under what circumstances Palestinians – or even Israeli Arabs – are living, you’d know. But you don’t get that type of news. Research though, and you’ll find lots of stuff.

    You say the small size doesn’t matter. In fact it really doesn’t matter. The fact that hunders of thousands of people were kicked out of their homes or murdered, their villages destroyed, and their right-to-return denied is enough. Seems though that it’s not really tragic, as long as it wasn’t Jews who were hurt in the process..

    Israel was founded on the right of Jews to return to their “homeland” which was lost almost 2000 years ago. Now you have thousands of Palestinian refugees who lost their homes 60 years ago, and aren’t given the right to return. Plain Hypocrisy if you ask me.

  37. “Keep on wallowing in your ignorance.”

    ah…perhaps I need to submit to the pure, undiluted hatred, misoginy and intolerance of islam. Then I can be enlightened enough to hate at full throttle!!!!

  38. Sphinx said:
    Just as a reminder, the crisis of Darfur is entirely based on Politics, and the hunger for power.

    This is true. Those who are carrying out the ethnic cleansing – the janjawid – are Salfists trying to create a pure Islamic state. There are black Janjaweed, and there are muslims being killed by them – but those are the unorthodox Sufi muslim tribes. The Janjawid’s goal in the Sudan is the same goal as the Islamic Courts Union in Somalia, they are just going about it differently, as the demographics are different in each region.

  39. You’re all sick. If they weren’t blowing everything up including their mothers we wouldn’t think their trying to kill us!

  40. “SonofMonkey, I reject Zionism, because the crimes it has commited against humanity and the havoc it has wrecked in the region”

    If there’s any truth in that it would be nice to hear of any other political movements that you find equally abhorrent.

    What does the ‘Night Journey’ chapter of the Qoran mean? It appears very pro-Zionist to mine eyes…

  41. Soulcase:

    “Typical taqiyah: accept the truth, then continue to obfuscate.”

    To demonstrate your ignorance on Islam: Taqiyyah is a Shia Muslim invention. It is rejected by Sunni Muslims (Which pose the majority), and that term isn’t even used in Sunni Islam. A true Muslim doesn’t need to conceal the truth.

    “I don’t care what the Qur’an says. Go to a majority Muslim country.”

    I lived in a majority Muslim country, practically all my life. And I still defy everything you say. Now beat that.

    You need some insight about racism and hate crimes. Watch South Park’s “Cartman’s Silly Hate Crime” and think VERY CAREFULLY about the message it’s bringing through.

  42. Aiight,y’all, that funky ass moon ‘god’ shit y’all
    be selling. that shit is DEAD….know what I’m sayin’?….now y’all
    tell that punk bitch muthafucka ‘allah’ he got to BOOK,right NOW, or I’m
    gonna bust a cap in THAT nigga’s ass,word up!…muthafuckas !!
    >>>

  43. Greetings to the brothers here. Muslims in Sudan must stop harassing black muslims. Until muslims stop slavery, nobody in other cultures will take us seriously. Other peoples will always be disrepectful to us until we stop being hypocrites by doing things like showing the hanged black people in the picture above. Arab Muslims in Sudan are doing the same thing to African Muslims.

  44. Looks like LGF took notice and is sending traffic. To all those from LGF, before you say anything, read some of Umar’s prior posts.

    You might be surprisingly impressed with his writings.

    Abu Sinan – “Because Buddhism and Hinduism are not a force that could get in the way of Western hedgemony, Islam most certainly is.”

    If that is true, why is Buddhism and Hinduism also in a perpetual state of conflict with their Islamic neighbors? (Thailand, Kashmir, etc..)

  45. “You need some insight about racism and hate crimes. Watch South Park’s “Cartman’s Silly Hate Crime” and think VERY CAREFULLY about the message it’s bringing through.”

    I cannot believe an islamonazi is using the mighty South Park as back up!!! It’s time for the ‘o’ word again…

    Is there an Arabic cognate of ‘chutzpah’?

  46. i am a Libertarian atheist and i can’t stand Islam , Islamism and any of its backward , medieval , violent teachings. its anti-semitic Jew-hating nature is also something that i am sick of.

    am i a racist for opposing Islam as much as i am against Nazism? am i a racist for saying that Hamas is WRONG and Israel has a right to defend itself?

    Being anti-Islam does not equate to being anti-Arab. One is an ideology, the other is a race of people, and I am certainly NOT anti-Arab or anti any bunch of people. I just cant stand Islam , the mad mullahs and Islamist terrorism.

  47. Sphinx:

    Here are some facts:

    1. Jordan killed more Palestinians during Black September than Israel has in its history.

    2. Over 1 million were killed in the Iran-Iraq war: Sunni-Shia

    3. Darfur: 200,000 exterminated by Muslims

    4. Algeria: 150, 000 exterminated by Muslims

    5. 9/11, Beslan, Bali, Madrid, London….

    6. Israel: Gay Pride parade, women can vote, serve in the army, so can arabs, health care, full citizenship.

    You are hypocrite and liar. You care nothing for human rights or truth. We are on top of the Taqiyya and your shame-based culture of emasculated men. Half of CAIR’s leaders have already been convicted abetting terrorism, others are under suspicion, and more are on the way. CAIR and your Wahabbi terrorists are going down. Big Time.

  48. Hunter, you only have the impression that we blow everything up, because you see nothing else in the news. Have you ever actually known a large number of Muslims? You’d be surprised how wrong this widespread impression is.

    I also advise anybody who thinks Islam is evil to watch “The Message” starring Anthony Quinn. Brilliant movie from 1976, which shows Islam in its real spirit. Forget all the lies and propaganda.

  49. “Now you have thousands of Palestinian refugees who lost their homes 60 years ago, and aren’t given the right to return. Plain Hypocrisy if you ask me.

    I agree. Just like the thousands of Serbs kicked out of Albania, the millions of Armenians kicked out of Turkey, and perhaps 10 million Hindus kicked out of Pakistan, all occuring around the same time as the Israeli independence. Sphinx’s consistant outrage over these refugee crises is indicative of his dedication to human rights througout the Muslim world.

  50. SonOfAMonkeyAndAPig I think we’re brothers! Unless you’re not white. Y’see I’m, apparently, a racist. It’s news to me. But I must abide by the rulings of my islamic overlord…

  51. Muslims are responsible for the light in which we see them. Stop continually justifying the murder of people in the most gruesome fashions imaginable, in the name of your “Religion of Peace”, and we might view you differently.

  52. A CAIR meeting from the 1940’s?

    Actually it’s Haj Amin al-Husseini. His place as leader of the radical, nationalist Palestinian Arabs was taken by his (distant) nephew and close follower Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini, better known as Yasser Arafat. In August 2002, Arafat gave an interview in which he referred to “our hero al-Husseini” as a symbol of Palestinian Arab resistance.

  53. Seanybaby, you choose to call me Islamonazi.. Erm ok, let me take out my list of insults now..

    Hmm, how about calling you fucktard? Yeah, that seems nice..

    I shouldn’t be wasting my time here. I have an exam I have to study for. I am so glad thought that there will be a Judgement Day after we all die. Where the truth will prevail, and all the liars will pay for their lies.

    Quran: “They seek to put out God’s light with their mouths, and God refuses other than that his light prevails, even though the unbelievers are averse”

  54. Jordan “If that is true, why is Buddhism and Hinduism also in a perpetual state of conflict with their Islamic neighbors? (Thailand, Kashmir, etc..)”

    Simple really, the Hindus in Kashmir are dominating a strip of land that is majority Muslim and wants to be part of Pakistan. International law says that if a majority of people in a given area wish to join a neighboring country they can. Why not allow a vote with all sides agreeing to live peacefully by the outcome? If a majority of the people in Kashmir want to be part of Pakistan, let them.

    Thailand, the Muslim minority there have been mistreated and marginalized for a very long time. Now, as a Muslim I dont agree with some of the methods they are using to fight against this treatment, but they certainly do have a right to fight against it.

  55. Are any of us surprised to learn that racism is endemic among people? All of us have an obligation — individually and collectively — to try to be honest, fair and introspective when dealing with issues of race.

    In practice, however, some are better at it than others, some are better on a given day, and, just when we think we have it all figured out, we haven’t.

  56. It is not Islamaphobic to point out that radical Islam comprises the greatest threat to world peace and civilization. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslims. It is disgraceful that other Muslims do not point out that the vast majority of victims of Islamic radicalism are other Muslims. Instead of constantly complaining about America and the Jews, Muslims should look to their own and ask “why do we behave this way?”

    I hate to say it, but until that day comes the Muslims will probably have to deal with “Islamophobia” from ordinary Americans and Europeans. It’s a natural reaction.

  57. “#Seanybaby
    April 10th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    SonOfAMonkeyAndAPig I think we’re brothers! Unless you’re not white. Y’see I’m, apparently, a racist. It’s news to me. But I must abide by the rulings of my islamic overlord…”

    Just shut up and pay the Jizhya.

  58. “#Abu Sinan
    April 10th, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    BTW………the LGF supporters here are doing nothing more than proving what Umar has said.”

    The taqiyya isn’t working. We’re onto it.

  59. Noodles,

    Y0u dont have a clue about Dafour. The whole thing started because of a issue over grazing and water rights. One tribe against another.

    When the government stepped in the stop the fighting one group decided to attack the government. The government worked with the other group to try and put down the group that was fighting against the government.

    This has nothing to do with religion or race, both sides are Muslim with the same tradition, both sides speak Arabic. This started out as a uprising over grazing rights and water rights for goats for God’s sake and you lot want to make it into the next Holocaust.

    BTW, when in the course of history have people started to use a tribal insult as a descriptor for people? “Janjuweed” is nothing more than a tribal insult for one particular tribe. That is what the conflict is ALL about, one tribe against others.

    Interesting that out of the three parties fighting against the government in Khartoum that two of them are now fighting WITH the government against their own tribal groupings. Kind of puts “paid” to the nonsense about genocide, unless a majority of the tribal that is supposedly slaughtered is now helping in their own slaughter?

    This was always about land and water rights, two of three groups think the government deal is good, so they are now fighting with the “Janjuweed” the other one group is holding out for a better deal.

  60. Son,

    Yes, we are very aware of the “taqqiya” argument. Basically it works like this:

    “Muslims arent condemning terror and working to fight against terrorists”.

    When they do condemn terror and work against it, it is “taqiyya”.

    It is easy for your thick headed lot to just call it what it really is “damned if you do, damned if you dont”.

    Muslims will never ever be able to do anything right by you folks, it will always be “taqqiya”. A convenient excuse for hatred.

  61. Guess you can’t post an image…what it was was a photo of the contractors hanging in Fallujah, and the happy Muslims celebrating.

  62. Okay, I’ve been wanting to do this for a while now, and now it’s just calling for it:

    IT’S TIME FOR THE ISLAM/LGF HATE-OFF!!!

    The rules are simple. For every hate-filled LGF comment that one of you Islamofascists put up, I will post a hate-filled message from a leader of the Muslim community. And it ends when one of us runs out of hate-filled messages to post, okay?

    And to start us off, The Head of the Nation of Islam, Louis Farrakhan:

    “They call them [Hezbollah] terrorists, I call them freedom fighters…No one asks why they would do such a thing. Why would they do such a thing? What has driven them to this point? That’s what the UN, the U.S. and Europe doesn’t want to deal with because the Zionists have control in England, in Europe, in the United States and around the world.”

  63. “The whole thing started because of a issue over grazing and water rights.”

    2,000,000 people dead or displaced over 20 years? those salafist tribes sponsored by the Sudanese regime in Khartum, who are in turn funded by the Saudi oil oligarchy, must have been really thirsty.

  64. Son,

    There have been many fatwas against terror. As to a “Fatwa of Apostasy” I have never heard of such a thing until you mentioned it. A person, by his or hers own actions make themselves an apostate, it is not an issue for a Fatwa. The only people who issue such things are the takfiris like bin Laden himself.

    As for Salafism it is clear you are just repeating talking about points. Because of this you are completely unaware that Salafism is a large school of thought, some of which completely reject violence, or for that matter, any political movements or involvement in politics all together. I guess your talking points didnt cover that though did they?

    Back to the race thing, of course Islam isnt a race, it is a religion, it just so happens that 99% of Muslims are not white. Hence a lot of what passes for anti-Islam/Muslim nonsense is racial based.

    90% of these idiots posting here dont know the first thing about Islam beyond what they read on sites like Little Green Footballs, yet they hate the “rag heads” anyways. Why? Because they come from different places, they look different.

    That, my friends, is why more Sikhs have been killed in the USA since 9/11 than Muslims. Because these violent racists are too stupid to know the different between Muslims and Sikhs, they just know they arent white and they wear “diapers” on their heads, so it is open season.

  65. Noodles “2,000,000 people dead or displaced over 20 years? those salafist tribes sponsored by the Sudanese regime in Khartum, who are in turn funded by the Saudi oil oligarchy, must have been really thirsty.”

    Wow, see how a very little bit of knowledge can get people really messed up? You are mixing apples and oranges and dont even know it. You are talking about the issue in Dafour and the issue in the south like they are the same issue.

    The issue in the south was a civil war and had as much to do with how oil money was split up and handed out as it was about religion. That war is over, those people are now actually a part of the government in Khartoum.

    Are you so think as to be unaware that there were TWO conflicts going on in Sudan? One is over with the other side and the government making peace. And get this……..no one had to convert to Islam! I guess that blows your theory about some holy war.

    In the different conflict that is Dafour, yet it started over grazing and water rights and now 2 out of the three groups that had been fighting against the government are now fighting FOR it because they got the deal they were looking for in regards to water and grazing rights. One group is holding out for a better deal, but with their own tribe fighting against them, it wont last long now.

  66. Umar…A lot of LGF traffic on your blog today bro. WOW! The thing I find interesting is that the Muslims thus far have maitained an even tone in the comments above while the LGF types have gone BERZERK with all kinds of offensive speach. Interesting… I haven’t seen a Muslim make any threats in the comments above, attack anyones religion, or attempt to incite violence. Yet the LGF types come to a MUSLIM BLOG and go off on serious tyrades of a vile and offensive nature. The comments above tell more about where the problem lies than anything else. Ignorance, fueled by intolerance, combined with propoganda is a dangerous combination.

    1) Christianity has been used as a pretext to kill, enslave, oppress, slaughter, and discriminate against more people in its history than ANY other religion INCLUDING Islam.

    2) Jews and Christian lived in Muslim lands in peace throughout antiquity while when the European Crusaders came to Palestine they butchered every non-Christian for sport. JEWS AS WELL.

    3) The Christian pretexed trans atlantic slave trade and the subsequent Imperialism, Colonialsm, and Racism that came along with it has DAMAGED HUMANITY irreperably with bigger tole than ANY muslim slave trade. But because the western benefactors of this onslaught don’t feal the damage…they think we have advanced.

    4) The “backwards” Muslims that you all fear literally brought europe out of the dark ages because of the advanced science, technology, and mathematics they brought with them. Islam was the mother of the European renaisance.

    5) Research the Mali empire and see how a West African Islamic empire was built on the back of its faith and imrpoved the welfare and quality of life of all of west Africa.

    6) Western Secular thought (communism, socialism, capitalism, imperialism, fascisim) killed over 100 MILLION people in the 20th centruty alone. Making it the bloodiest in the history of the world. Nothing to do with Islam..

    7) Compare the 1427 year history of Islam to the 2100 + history of Western Civiliztion and Christianity…then do the body count, and compare the contributions. I don’t think we’ll be calling Muslims’ savage after that math (using islamic numerals introduced by muslims by the way). Think of that as you shower today using the soap that was also invented by Muslims….

    Peace to All

  67. Abu Sinan wrote:

    “Muslims will never ever be able to do anything right by you folks, it will always be ‘taqqiya’. A convenient excuse for hatred.”

    Yes, it’s a big problem for you. Your “prophet” himself said, “War is deceit.”

    And taqiyya isn’t just a “Shi’a invention”. Sunnis do it to, and the claim otherwise is, itself, taqiyya.

  68. Brain-Washed Sheeple- here’s another good one.

    “Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam … Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book
    of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only
    accepted religion on Earth.”

    That pesky “freedom of religion” thing… it’s soooo racist…

    Abu Sinan- I couldn’t care less that they look different. It’s the ticket to paradise for bombing buses that turns me off of islam. Period.

    Black, yellow, brown or white- it’s wrong. And defending it is wrong.

  69. Abu Sinan, can you understand why Hindus, even in the minority, may not want to live under Islamic law? After all, since partisan, Pakistan is essentially Kuffar free but India has 300 million Muslims. I don’t think democracy was designed to enforce majority endorsed tyranny. Nor do I think its fair that Muslim majority countries can expel their kuffar populations and cry about it when it happens to them.

    As for Thailand, how you could defend these thugs is beyond me. They light Buddhist teachers on fire! As for grievances, Thailand recently had a coup in order to change its policy. Now it gives in to every demand and the result has been more be-headings, more shootings, more bombings. At some point, we must acknowledge that the Kaffir are not the problem… at least not in Thailand.

    But assuming your right and every conflict involving Islam and non-Muslims (Buddhist, Hindus, Jews, etc..) is ultimately the fault of non-Muslims, then how do you explain the disheartening Muslim-on-Muslim violence.

    Yes, in Palestine, Jews and Arabs do horrible things to each other. But one main difference is that no matter how much pressure the Jews are under, they don’t kill their own. Tell me your not angered that since the Gaza retreat, Palestinians have turned their guns on themselves. At this point, advocating for ending the occupation in the West Bank (which I still ultimately support), is a recipe for disaster.

    Just as the Soviets killed millions by sending their fellow comrades to the gulags, the Islamic world will have to examine what part of their ideology compels them to kill their own brothers.

    Or we can just blame western hegemony like usual.

  70. As a Hispanic I hate Muslims.
    You barbarians enslaved and tried to exterminate my people. Screw your religion founded by a pedophile!
    Fuck Allah your stupid Arabian Moon God.

  71. Abdul Jabbar:
    Arabic numerals (not islamic numerals) were invented in India prior to Islam. The Arabs copied it from India and the Europeans copied it from Arabs, and that is why the Europeans named them Arabic numerals.

    You state that Islam brought Europe out of the middle ages. Some evidence to back it up will be useful.

  72. @The Joker:
    25% of the Spanish language is made of Arabic. Look it up. Muslims brought more liberation, education, and advancement to Andalusia (Spain) then EVER existed under the Christians. Whole universities were created simply for the education of women. Islam was a beacon of light in Spain while Chrisitianty brought darkness and oppression. Jews FLURISHED in Islamic Spain while the Christians tried to exterminate the Jews AND Muslims under the inquisition.

    LGF types are really showing what they’re made of..

    Please read some history….

  73. “Y0u dont have a clue about Dafour. The whole thing started because of a issue over grazing and water rights. One tribe against another”

    There is no reason why that logic cannot be applied to Israel and the Palestinians. But I suspect you won’t be applying it…

  74. Is is Islam that is giving muslims such a bad name not the right wing commentators who you are crying about.
    How about spending the energy wasted crying called out those muslims that ruin “Islams” name murder by murder.
    It seems muslims can’t live in peace with anyone and blame everyone else for the sorry state that islamic countries are in.
    Time to look in the mirror and realize that “YOU” are the problem and not Bill O’ Reilly.
    Afterall, these people are the only ones that are brave enough to tell the truth about Muhammed & his followers….

  75. That, my friends, is why more Sikhs have been killed in the USA since 9/11 than Muslims.

    The way that you claim Muslims are always the victims of everything, and that America is such an evil oppressive force, leads me to believe there must have been thousands of Sikhs killed in the U.S. just to keep up with the massive persecution of Muslims in America. Someone should do an investigation into this genocide.

  76. Abdul Jabbar- what facts? He posted an old racist picture and compared it to the people who question islam.

    It’s ridiculous.

    There are no facts presented to knock down.

  77. Abdul Jabbar – My doctoral dissertation is due in little over a month (a comparison between the rather mild British Raj of 1914-18 and the extremely oppressive one of 1921-22 – fascinating stuff!). I think I can safely say I have more historical knowledge, and the skills to work with it, than you.

    The Islamic world was intellectually rich in the days before ijtihad was closed. Almost 1000 years ago. Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs and Shinto have all contributed to modern science and technology and still do. Muslims don’t. Jeez! Even the weapons they like adorning on their flags weren’t invented by them…

  78. @Germore:
    The numerals were origianlly from India (sanscrit) but were used by the Muslims and exposed to the Europeans via their contact with Islam. I did not claim that Arabs or Muslims invented these numbers. They saw their utility appropriated it and transported to the world. If it had not been for Muslims, Europeans would NEVER had been exposed to the numbers we commonly use today. Also Muslims improved on their utility by creating ALGEBRA (from Arabic: Al GEBER), (ALGORITHMS), ALCHEMY(PRECUROR TO CHEMISTRY). Muslims were performing eye surgery while Europeans were still painting themselves blue and bathing once a year because they were afraid of water.

    Also, If you want a full bibliography let me know, or would you prefer links to web sites?

  79. Well, it’s kind of difficult to respect ANYONE who sticks his ass in the air 5 times a day to honor a mass murderer who fucked a 9 yr old girl…..but then when your entire culture suffers from a millenium long collective inferiority complex, I guess it’s understandable

  80. “Muslims were performing eye surgery while Europeans were still painting themselves blue and bathing once a year because they were afraid of water.”

    Bit of a lag between the two eras (by about 1000 years). But as somebody pointed out earlier, it’s all about obfuscation.

  81. Ari said:
    It is is Islam that is giving muslims such a bad name not the right wing commentators who you are crying about.

    How can this be true? Just look around the world. It appears everyone is fighting against Muslims. In Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, India, Thailand, Sudan, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Southern Russia, Spain, Yugoslavia, ect… Everywhere the Muslim world borders on the world of the Kufir, there is conflict. In fact, there really isn’t much conflict anywhere else!

    Clearly this indicates that the rest of the world is simply out to get Muslims and to destroy Islam. Especially when you consider that the tactic of choice for Muslims is terrorism, and it is scientific fact that the root cause of terrorism is oppression againts Muslims.

  82. “The “backwards” Muslims that you all fear literally brought europe out of the dark ages because of the advanced science, technology, and mathematics they brought with them. Islam was the mother of the European renaisance. ”

    That’s a lie. Islam caused the Dark Ages. When they conquered the Middle East trade routes and cut off trade between Europe and Asia, European cities collapsed and people were forced to go to the countryside. The advanced knowledge that Islam had was due to it’s conquests of Roman Provinces and the Persian Empire.
    In fact what caused the renainsance were Greek refugees from the Dying East Roman Empire fleeing the Turks.
    Stop your propaganda pieces.
    In fact the Islamic conqueres burnt the Library of Alexandia in 642 AD. If it wasn’t for Constantinople there would be no civilization.

  83. @Locksley

    ONCE AGAIN:

    “I haven’t seen a Muslim make any threats in the comments above, attack anyones religion, or attempt to incite violence. Yet the LGF types come to a MUSLIM BLOG and go off on serious tyrades of a vile and offensive nature. The comments above tell more about where the problem lies than anything else. Ignorance, fueled by intolerance, combined with propoganda is a dangerous combination.”

    LGF Types are still proving my point… Its sad you guys can’t control that savage temper of yours? is that somehting left over from the dark ages? The Crusades maybe? Get therapy..

  84. Muslims have no brains, look at their countries, cesspools of ignorance. And then, because they are so inferior, they have to threaten to kill everybody else. What an intelligent and mature world outlook. Muslim=Moron.

  85. Jordan “I don’t think democracy was designed to enforce majority endorsed tyranny.”

    Really? When did you stop supporting Israel? I never would have thought.

  86. Unbelievable how many humans have been hoodwinked by this poor excuse for a religion / poor excuse for a political ideology. Ditto for Islam being retarded.

  87. Jordan “But one main difference is that no matter how much pressure the Jews are under, they don’t kill their own. ”

    Really? And here I was thinking Jewish extremists killed a PM of Israel. I must have gotten a doctored history book.

  88. I agree with the person who early said that it is ironic that it is claimed Muslims attack people on-line.

    Look at this thread, it is nothing more than outrageous attacks against Islam and Muslims yet not one Muslim has responded in kind.

    Must be more “taqqiya”.

  89. “25% of the Spanish language is made of Arabic. Look it up. Muslims brought more liberation, education, and advancement to Andalusia (Spain) then EVER existed under the Christians. Whole universities were created simply for the education of women. Islam was a beacon of light in Spain while Chrisitianty brought darkness and oppression. Jews FLURISHED in Islamic Spain while the Christians tried to exterminate the Jews AND Muslims under the inquisition.”

    Another lie.
    The Visigoths governed Spain in the name of the Roman Emperor in Constantinople. Spain was a very advanced state before the Islamic genocide.
    There were universities, trade and it was the most literate country West of the Eastern Roman Empire.
    The Musloims conquered a very advanced nation.
    They lived off the achievements of the Romans.
    That’s why eventually the Spaniards were able to liberate our nation. We advanced and you people stayed the same.
    Talk to me about facts not Islamic lies.
    Hey why did Christians had to pay Jiyaza tax and force to wear distinct clothing?
    It was Islamic apartheid, pure and simple.
    Also 25% of Spanish words aren’t Arabic. a total lie.
    Only about 5-8% is arabic. That’s why Spanirads and Italians can speak and understand each other.
    The more lies ypou post, the most I will expose.

  90. “LGF Types are still proving my point… Its sad you guys can’t control that savage temper of yours? is that somehting left over from the dark ages? The Crusades maybe? Get therapy..”

    yes, soon we will be organizing suicide bombings. not only that we will kill each other as well. we have learned this from islam and the worlds muslims. Untimely death is Islam’s greatest contribution to mankind. Oh, and the internet, they invented it you know, not al gore as previously thought

  91. Jordan,

    Your obsession with me whilst you IGNORE the sectarian and racist rants going on here speaks volumes.

    Your silence shows that you agree with the comments being made here.

  92. @The Joker

    And who exposed Europeans to this “Greek” philosophy that they actually got from the Egyptians?

    Read Martin Bernal’s “Black Athena” for a start, then we can get to the Islamic Period. Inshallah, I will start hitting you with reference material to start you education.

    RIF: reading is fundamental to an Islamophobes education…

    Enjoy wearing those “pantalons” because the word and the clothing style came from the Arab Muslims. It also means pants in Arabic.

  93. What many muslims don’t seem to realize is that we know about Mecca vs. Medina versus. We know about abrogation, we know that many verses contradict one another so that it is easy to pick examples that paint Islam as a tolerant and peaceful religion even though those verses were not among the final revelations. We know about the Jizyha. We know that Mohammed was a merciless military and political leader. So when you quote 2:256 “There is no compulsion…” we have heard it before and we know that it does not tell the whole story. We can read the Koran and the Sirah. We can see with our own eyes from Islamic sources that Islam is a religion that in both its texts and actions of its founder embraces violence, war, murder, the subjugation of women, slavery, and draconian punishments for crimes. We are also not impressed when muslims feebly answer these issues by pointing out the Crusades or the Inquisition. We are talking about today people. We do not see Islam as a threat because we are racist, we are not acting out some role in your imagined Zionist conspiracy. We see Islam as a threat because Islam tells us as much in its words and actions. You call it “Islamophobia” to fear something that every day professes its goal to destroy us and everyday kills in order to reach that goal. I call it common sense.

  94. Wow, looks like there is an LGF Crusade going on here. How many of these LGF’ers have read any of Umar’s posts? Presumably none.
    These Spencerites are hopeless sheep who hide behind the arguments of pseudo-scholars. What these goons have in common is their deep partisanship for Israel (even at the expense of American interests) and their militant belief in turning the Islamic lands into secular states. How long will this strange nexus of Zionist Jews and Evangelical Nationalists who believe the world is 6,000 yrs. old continue; strange bed fellows.

  95. what islam may or may not have contributed to civilization hundreds of years ago. The problem with it is NOW. Look at all the islamic countries and they are shit. Every last one of them. So, before you come to our countries to apply your fixes, stay the fuck home and fix your own countries first. Somehow I suspect you’d only end up fucking them up even more.

  96. The Sphinx wrote:

    “Meatrocket, you need to stop believing this myth that Islam is about killing Jews. Among the tenants of belief are that you believe in Moses and in the Torah as God’s word, and that you accept Judaism as one of three “heavenly religions” (including Christianity and Islam). We’re not even asking that you believe in Mohamed or the Quran in return. This convert-or-kill thing is also a lie. The Quran said: “There is no coercion in religion”, and “You have your religion, and I have mine”)
    So claiming that we’re all after the death of Jews is quite paradox, considering what Islam REALLY teaches. And whoever wants to kill Jews for the hell of it isn’t a real Muslim anyway.”

    Here is why I believe that Islam teaches to kill the Jews (on top of what I see happening around the world today):

    Sura 3:85
    If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
    Sura 3:98
    Say: “O People of the Book! Why reject ye the Signs of Allah, when Allah is Himself witness to all ye do?”
    Sura 3:99
    Say: “O ye People of the Book! Why obstruct ye those who believe, from the path of Allah, Seeking to make it crooked, while ye were yourselves witnesses (to Allah’s Covenant)? but Allah is not unmindful of all that ye do.”
    Sura 3:100
    O ye who believe! If ye listen to a faction among the People of the Book, they would (indeed) render you apostates after ye have believed!

    Sura 33:26
    And He brought those of the People of the Book [Qurayza] who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts, some of them you slew [q—t—l] and some you took captive.
    Sura 9:29
    Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    Sura 9:30
    The Jews call ‘Uzair (Ezra) a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

    Here’s a little insight into Arab arrogance:
    Tabari IX:69 “Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us.”

    And here are the final passages that have doomed the entire world to fight with Muslims until the end of time:
    Sahih Muslim:C9B1N31 “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought.”
    Tabari VI:139 “Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse ‘And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.'”
    Ishaq:530 “Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make enemies of friends.”
    Muslim:C9B1N33 “The Prophet said: ‘I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'”
    Quran Sura2:193
    And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

    Sphinx, although you seem very intelligent, you need to read more of your own religious writings. There is a lot more to Islam than just the Quran.

  97. “And who exposed Europeans to this “Greek” philosophy that they actually got from the Egyptians?”

    Yes, the Coptic Egyptians. The same ones being persecuted by Muslims.

    “Read Martin Bernal’s “Black Athena” for a start, then we can get to the Islamic Period. Inshallah, I will start hitting you with reference material to start you education.”

    Ha ha. A book by an Ismaists apologists.
    I to can hit you with facts.
    You’ll just post Islamic propaganda material that easily can be debunked.
    You can’t fool, I’m part Spaniard I know about how Muslims treated Spanirds.
    How about the fact we weren’t allowed to ring our Church bells. That our word in court couldn’t be used in court against Muslims.
    An Apartheid system we destroyed!
    Your people hate Dogs, that alone says it all.
    Hey if you guys were so advanced why did the Romans stop you in Constantinople in 717 AD through the use of Greek Fire?
    Hmmm?

  98. Kaffir,

    Yes, just like your descendents, the Nazis, knew all about the Jews! You guys just dont get it, you all sound like a bad copy of “Der Sturmer” from 1930’s Germany. Change Muslims for Jews, and you guys are just like them, down to the cartoons used to justify the hate.

  99. The Joker “An Apartheid system we destroyed!”

    Care to tell us how the Jews faired in Spain after 1492? Care to tell us about forced conversions of Jews? Can you let us know where the Jews fled when they didnt want to be burned alive or be forced to convert to Christianity?

  100. “Enjoy wearing those “pantalons” because the word and the clothing style came from the Arab Muslims. It also means pants in Arabic.”

    Ah yes, a reminder of the occupation of our lands.
    Either way the we kicked your ass and liberated our lands. You shouldn’t have came in the 1st place.
    What right gives you Muslims to commit genocide against non Mulsims?
    What right your Moon God and his pedophile Gog hater?
    Either way we won!

  101. Islam is a collection of ideas. Some of those ideas appear totally destructive and incompatible with the modern world and its liberal ideals. These ideas must be given the hard questioning they deserve in the modern world. Unfortunately, leftists and “progressives” sensing soulmates in the great battle against globalization etc. are giving Islam a free ride on things like its treatment of women and minorities not to mention its support of terrorism. Not only must THESE folks throw away their blinders but until these questions are asked by muslims of other muslims, our problem with Islam are going to become YOUR problem with Islam. That would be tragic but avoidable development. How hard is it to condemn these activities and if not openly condemned, how easy it is to assume all muslims are on the same page?

  102. These LGF’ers whole campaign is about sabotage and lying. Look they tried to use my name to spew a reactionary response. These individuals have no integrity at all, but it is not surprising when there so called “scholars” cant debate without trying to constantly talk over and shout out the other side. Just look at the R. Spencer in the debate D’Sousza, he had no ettiquete and consistently messed with Dsousze’s mike and spoke over him. He had no response.

  103. I’m still waiting for these alleged “RACIST hate-filled” comments from LGF…

    In the meantime, here’s a fun tidbit from Dr. Ahmad Abu Halabiya, Member of the Palestinian Authority-appointed “Fatwa Council” and former acting Rector of the Islamic University in Gaza:

    “Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them. Wherever you are, kill those Jews and those Americans who are like them – and those who stand by them – they are all in one trench, against the Arabs and the Muslims because they established Israel here, in the beating heart of the Arab world, in Palestine. They created it to be the outpost of their civilization and the vanguard of their army, and to be the sword of the West and the crusaders, hanging over the necks of the monotheists, the Muslims in these lands. They wanted the Jews to be their spearhead…”

  104. Abu Sinan
    The Muslims sided with the Nazis. Bana of the Muslims brotherhood Hitler. The Waffen SS had Bosnian Mulsim ans Albanian Muslim recruits comitting genocide gaianst Jews and Serbs during WW2.
    Care to discuss that?

  105. Our Prophet was no pedophile. Islam does not recognize pedophilia. Prophet (PBUH) if anything, was simply teaching her the ways of reproduction by worshiping her glorious supple young frame. In any case, their would have to have been at least 4 male witnesses to the Prophets instructive teachings to her.

  106. How long will this strange nexus of Zionist Jews and Evangelical Nationalists who believe the world is 6,000 yrs. old continue; strange bed fellows.

    I was always taught by my Muslim overlords that the Jews fabricated the theory of evolution to cover up that pigs, monkeys and other vermin are actually decendants of Jews who broke the sabbath.

    Also, I was taught that the Genesis stories about the creation of the earth are fairly historically accurate according to Islam, except that some things were left out. For example, Mohammad said that Adam was about 90 feet tall, that the Garden of Eden was in a valley near Mecca, that there are actually 7 layers to planet earth, and that the Sun sets every night into a pool of murky water.

  107. Abu Sinan – “Really? When did you stop supporting Israel? I never would have thought.”

    I don’t consider secular law where women are considered equal and gays can live without fear as being as being “tyranny”. I do consider sharia to be tyranny, and could understand why Hindus and Jews would not want to live under it. I oppose the notion that in any country where Muslims are minority, that automatically means they are being oppressed. However, more often than not, the reverse seems to be true.

    Abu Sinan – “Really? And here I was thinking Jewish extremists killed a PM of Israel. I must have gotten a doctored history book.”

    Nope, he was a Jewish terrorists. But do you notice how the Jewish community does not support that terrorist scumbag (unlike Hamas support) or blame Muslims for the rare times when Jews kill other Jews? Strange how that works. It’s almost if Jews feel they are responsible for their own behavior.

    Abu Sinan – “Your obsession with me whilst you IGNORE the sectarian and racist rants going on here speaks volumes.”

    What you call obsession is me answering your questions. I have ignored the LFG post just as thourally as you ignore DrM and the many jew-haters who have come accross your site. I don’t find it necessary to respond to imbicile comments like “Islam sucks”. I do find it necessary to respond to you blaming the burning of innocent Buddhist in Thailand on the Buddhest themselves.

    And FYI, I did post a comment praising Umar Lee and asked LFG posters to read Umar’s pasts posts as they demonstrate his fairness and open-mindness.

  108. Ishaq:243 “I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s.'”

    Ishaq:144 “A rock was put on a slave’s chest. When Abu Bakr complained, they said, ‘You are the one who corrupted him, so save him from his plight.’ I will do so,’ said Bakr. ‘I have a black slave, tougher and stronger than Bilal, who is a heathen. I will exchange him. The transaction was carried out.”

    Qur’an 9:97 “The Arabs of the desert are the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger.”

    Tabari II:11 “Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.”

    Tabari II:21 “Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham’s descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem’s, the latter would enslave them.”

    Tabari IX:69 “Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us.”

    Bukhari: V9B89N256 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he is a black African slave whose head looks like a raisin.'”

    Ishaq:450 “It is your folly to fight the Apostle, for Allah’s army is bound to disgrace you. We brought them to the pit. Hell was their meeting place. We collected them there, black slaves, men of no descent.

    Ishaq:374 “The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.'”

    Bukhari:V4B52N137 “The Prophet said, ‘Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him…. If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.'”

  109. Ibn Sabeel
    A leader will arise in the West one day. He will destroy your Leftists allies 1st then your pathtic Dog hating cult.

  110. Personally, I find this blog to be offensive and juvenile, just like your typical muslim extremist. If you pro-jihad imbeciles continue on your course of ignorance, it will only be a matter of time before it becomes open season on muslim extremists around the world and we will be able to just exterminate you like the rats that you are.

    I look forward to this day.

  111. The fact that you in the west would even consider a dog as your “friend”, speaks to your uncivilized nature. Do not worry my friend, Islam WILL save you.

  112. Abu Sinan-
    “Kaffir,

    Yes, just like your descendents, the Nazis, knew all about the Jews! You guys just dont get it, you all sound like a bad copy of “Der Sturmer” from 1930’s Germany. Change Muslims for Jews, and you guys are just like them, down to the cartoons used to justify the hate.”

    The irony of a muslim, (possibly even a descendant of someone who served in the SS Handzar Division?) accussing someone of Polish decent of being “just like the Nazis” is rich. I’m not sure, if an Arab were to make this comment do they mean it as a compliment? I understand Mein Kampf is still very popular in the Arab world.

  113. “Our Prophet was no pedophile. Islam does not recognize pedophilia. Prophet (PBUH) if anything, was simply teaching her the ways of reproduction by worshiping her glorious supple young frame. In any case, their would have to have been at least 4 male witnesses to the Prophets instructive teachings to her.”

    Hey punk. Dont use my name. What are you like 6 years old? Everyone here knows what you are doing. Ignore this moron, he is practicing LGF-style taqiyya, his statements go completely against the spirit of Islam and if I could I would sue your ass for libel. Just have to set the record straight.
    -Da Real Ibn Sabeel

  114. @Brain-Washed Sheeple:
    Last time I checked the speaker you mentioned was not commenting on this Blog. I was refering to the comments LGF’ers have made here and their level of offensiveness compared the Muslim comments.
    Its a typical LGF islamaphobe tactic to bring in the statements of an outside radical extremist and attempt to paint it as the sentiment of all Muslims rather than to address the issues at hand: which are the TONE OF LGFers in these comments compared to the tone of the Muslims here.

  115. “The fact that you in the west would even consider a dog as your “friend”, speaks to your uncivilized nature. ”

    As Latin whose race was raised by a Wolf/Dog the She wolf who raised Romulus and Remus, yes the Dog is my friend.
    That’s why us Latins kicked your Islamic asses at Lepantos. we them fed Pork to Muslims prisoners and put Dog saliva on you scum.
    That’s why the West will reject your lies.
    We love our dogs.

  116. LGF’ers, while this particular post deserved to be put in its place, Umar Lee is one of the most respectable fair individuals on the blogasphere.

    Spend 10 minutes reading about how he feels about consperacy theories or Israel, he is fair. And I say this as an anthiest Jew who supports Israel and Westearn civilization.

  117. Yo this is a complete waste of freakin’ time.

    Jordan whats up man? I’ve read your past posts and they seemed reasoned. Do you know what sharia’ is? Look Sharia’ is not even practiced in Kashmir, the law is based off of british common law. Do you know about the atrocities of the Indian army in Kashmir? The rapes, the murder, the mutilation and torture? True there is an element amongst us Muslims of reactionary extremists, but the West has done a dispicable job of discerning between those Muslims who are remaining faithful to Islam and addressing Muslim grievances and questions in a non-violent and when neccessary legitimately violent way! The Muslim Brotherhood is not the same as Al’Qaida! Hizbollah is not the same as the Taliban! The longer it takes the West to realise this the more protracted the misunderstanding will last.
    Read this: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/howtolose.html

  118. Jordan,
    If Muslims continue wanting special rights here in AMerica, a backlash will happen and they will be lynched Milosevic style.
    Mark my words, there’s plenty of us waitunf to do this!

  119. Joker “If Muslims continue wanting special rights here in AMerica, a backlash will happen and they will be lynched Milosevic style.
    Mark my words, there’s plenty of us waitunf to do this!”

    So you are calling for genocide right? Mass murder and rape ala “Milosevic” right?

    Nice friends Jordan.

  120. Make no mistake about it. You are nothing but a prisoner! You don’t have the freedom to leave Islam even if you had the dignity, integrity and self-respect to do so. Do you know that your prayers go unanswered? Do you know that strapping dynamite to your chest or on to the chest of your 12 year old son will send neither of you to Paradise to hump an endless stream of virgins? All the bogus promises of an Islamic Heaven filled with young virgins (both little girls AND little boys) should be an insult to any sane human intelligence. By the way, when was the last time an Islamic cleric, mullah, Grand Mufti or a fat pedophile like Arafat ever volunteered to blow HIMSELF up? Believe me, THEY are a lot smarter than you!!! Do you realize that your Islamic cult’s ONLY enduring claim to fame is prefaced upon the utter injustice to others who do not share its Islamic cultist beliefs? The cult you worship was a cult created by the psychopath “Mohammed” and spread in all directions by his gangs of like-minded freaks bent on plunder, murder, vandalism, mayhem, rape and pillage. And this is the same fate awaiting those few non-Muslims unfortunate enough to still reside in areas under Islamic control today! Such is the sad state of affairs in ALL Islamic-dominated lands. Is THIS what makes you a proud Muslim? … which of the forty or so Islamic nations do you most admire? Are there ANY without abject poverty, utter devastation, endemic corruption, extreme economic inequities and grotesque injustices? And what would ANY of them be if it were not for all the oil lying beneath them… oil discovered by others, pumped out by others and transported out by others! The fact is that NON-Muslims live far better in this world and certainly enjoy infinitely more physical, emotional and spiritual freedoms! Even your enemy, Israel… despite all your vicious attempts to terrorize her, to have the world boycott her and to pressure the stinking U.N. to isolate her… has a far higher standard of living and a more vibrant society and lifestyle. The misery of the Arab peoples, which remain disproportionately illiterate, jobless and illiterate, is not the fault of any Westerner (and certainly not Israel)… but rather the doing of their own un-elected leaders who have squandered the vast mineral and oil riches within which their lands have been blessed. You praise Allah for this? Simply put… If you had the ability to un-clog your brainwashed minds, you would acknowledge the Truth that Islam IS definitely the worse form of racism and fast becoming synonymous with “terrorism” itself! And terrorized are YOU too and you will continue to be terrorized for the rest of your miserable blind existence… unless you face this reality. Why not unload this heavy baggage and become a good person… or, at the very least, ACT AS ONE. . not Jihad, Holy War and suicidal martyrdom. You keep saying that you and we are “cousins.” Why not become more like brothers? Within a generation or two your progeny will thank you.

  121. Ibn Sabeel
    What about Muslim cab drivers that refuse to people with blind dogs?
    Nice example of Sharia. This is America, you nwant Sharia go live in Iran. When in AMerica, live under American laws.

  122. “Care to tell us how the Jews faired in Spain after 1492? Care to tell us about forced conversions of Jews? Can you let us know where the Jews fled when they didnt want to be burned alive or be forced to convert to Christianity?”

    In 1492 Jews in Spain, Germany, Italy or Russia (among others) would have fled to Turkey, or “Palestine”, or possibly Egypt. Today the safe destination for them would be Israel or the United states, most likely. Certainly none of the current Muslim countries. I would include Europe as a safe haven for Jews, but antisemitism is already on the rise there (again) and it would only be even partially safe for them until the conversion to “Eurabia” is completed. And who wants to move twice in a row?

  123. Hello gentlemen and women (you know who you are),

    I happen to check-out lgf today and found something unusal there. Useful information. I try to sort out the ME situtation and follow many paths, so I was glad to link to this blog. Consider yourself rolled.

    Spinx: I was so glad to find your break-down on the whole “wipe Israel off the map” lie that has become conventional wisdom even among those who should know better. I did a bit of research the first time it came up but I really wanted to know more.

    Thanks to both of you and I’ll be typing you soon.

  124. I tell you punk, I’m gonna sue you and if I ever get the chance I may even behead you and teach your women how a man reproduces.

    -Da Real Ibn Sabeel

  125. “So you are calling for genocide right? Mass murder and rape ala “Milosevic” right?”

    Not the Rap part, but yes If you guys keep acting up and keep demanding speacial priviledges I do advocate removing your kind from this country.

    In HS I used to beat up Muslims, 5%’ Black Muslims and take the Hijabs off Girls.
    I don’t like your kind.
    I am the answer to your Jihadists. Be forewarned
    there are more like me just iching and waiting to desnd on you like a pack of Dogs.
    Beware.

  126. Umar Lee is one of the most respectable fair individuals on the blogasphere…And I say this as an anthiest Jew who supports Israel and Westearn civilization.
    Well, you’re obviously not a black man from the southern U.S. or you would have been seriously offended by that photo.

  127. “Our Prophet was no pedophile. Islam does not recognize pedophilia. Prophet (PBUH) if anything, was simply teaching her the ways of reproduction by worshiping her glorious supple young frame. In any case, their would have to have been at least 4 male witnesses to the Prophets instructive teachings to her.”

    That you dare say this speaks of your ignorance of Islam.

  128. Kaffir “The irony of a muslim, (possibly even a descendant of someone who served in the SS Handzar Division?) accussing someone of Polish decent of being “just like the Nazis” is rich. ”

    Who do you think worked in Auschwitz? There were a lot of Poles. Poles engaged in their own pogroms during WW2 and before.

    Attack on The Jews of Wloclawek (Poland)
    Following the German Occupation
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Wloclawek.html

    Let me guess, The Jewish Virtual Libary is a Muslim front organisation?

    The Attitudes of the Poles Toward the Jews
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/pole2jew.html

    Not a pretty history Kaffir!

  129. Joker “In HS I used to beat up Muslims, 5%’ Black Muslims and take the Hijabs off Girls.”

    Wow, I bet that helped you feel really tough. You attacked women and removed their clothing.

    A hero from LGF! All Hail Joker! Heil Joker, Heil Joker!

  130. Joker “I hope some one wipes Iran and Saudi Arabia off the map!”

    Judging from your comments, ie physically attacking girls, I suggest you worry about wiping yourself instead.

  131. “Judging from your comments, ie physically attacking girls, I suggest you worry about wiping yourself instead.”

    And don’t even think of using the Koran for this.

  132. My descendants Kaffir?

    LOL! I am 6’2″ tall, blond haired, blue eyed, born in Germany. My ancestors walked both sides of the line, I am distantly related to the coach of the Israeli wrestling team killed by Palestinians in Munich. I am also a proud convert to Islam.

    What now oh son of Polish pogroms?

  133. “Some of the posters here supporting Umar are black from the USA. Next?”

    And so are some of us who support LGF and despise Islam. How dare you compare yourselves to the struggle of blacks in the south, they didn’t blow anyone up you know.

  134. People have every right to be suspicious of Muslims. How many Christians were among those who hijacked the airliners on 9/11? How many Jews? How many Bhuddists?

    How many Christians have strapped bombs to their children and sent them to blow themselves up on a bus?

    Before 9/11 most Americans didn’t care about Muslims one way or another. Now most of us don’t like them.

    Muslims have given us no reason to like them, but every reason to hate them.

    What kind of people dance in the street when 3000 innocent people die?

    What kind of people demonstrate in London carrying signs saying anyone who disagrees with them should be beheaded?

    What kind of people worship a pervert who rapes 9 year old girls?

  135. It would seem that the vistors from LGF have some serious issues. Is that you Kaffir, oh Son of Polish Pogroms?

    Umar, it is clear you should not have allowed comments on this one. The idiots from LGF cannot help themselves.

  136. Salaam Abu Sinan,

    These clowns are not worth the time. They lack any integrity or critical understanding. The internet is a place for them to feel confidant in their weak arguments and slander that they would dare not say in public.

    Joker you live in a fantasy land. The overwhelming majority of Muslims in America consider themselves American and we are not going to leave! This is our home and we are gonna make it better. Muslims have contributed much here and will continue, while time passes by you and leaves your hate filled ideology in the dustbin.

  137. I don’t hate muslims. I do hate islamists. Remember that 15 of the 19 islamist-terrorists were from the house of SAUD.

    In the christian bible it says in REVELATIONS warning of the FALSE PROPHET. The world is being deceived by this False Prophet. Is this False Prophet, the prophet muhammed of islam? I believe it is. SATAN is the greatest deceiver of the world. Muslims will be damned if they don’t turn from muhammed and ask the true God’s forgiveness through Jesus.

  138. @ The Joker:

    For a videodocumentary of the history of Islamic Contribution to Western Civilization, particularly Spain, please obtain PBS Video series, Islam: Empire of Faith. This should educate all interested about some of the actual contributions Muslims under the banner of Islam have made to world civilization. Inshallah, I’ll work on compiling a bibliography for you. I pray the almighty gives you guidence. For you to be proud of ripping clothing off of women is rather sad.

  139. Ibn Sabeel said:

    Joker you live in a fantasy land. The overwhelming majority of Muslims in America consider themselves American and we are not going to leave! This is our home and we are gonna make it better. Muslims have contributed much here and will continue, while time passes by you and leaves your hate filled ideology in the dustbin.

    Us hate filled? When it comes to hate filled ideology Islam is #1. Am I wrong? If so, where are the Muslims protesting against the terrorists? We’ve all seen the pictures of the thousands of Muslims in London holding up signs saying “Death to those who insult Islam” Where were the thousands of Muslims condemning this?

    The only problem Muslims have with the photo at the top of the picture is those people only killed two people. If they had killed a thousand, it would be ok.

    I like how the Russians deal with Muslim terrorists. Kill them and bury them in pig skin.

  140. “There is no coercion in religion” is a phrase; there is a full verse and a context. It refers to Judaism and Christianity as the religions needing to stop proselytizing now that islam is claiming to be superior to them and claiming also to completely supersede.

    Either Jesus was crucified and is the first fruit of the Resurrection or Allah out schemed the Gospel disciples of Jesus and made it look like Jesus was crucified but used a double instead to fake out the Gospel disciples of Jesus.

    The question is “Were the Gospel disciples of Jesus blasphemers or not?” Is Jesus the Son of God the disciples and early Christians are witnesses for or is Jesus an Islamic witness against them in the [near] future? Are the Gospel disciples of Jesus typical examples of unbelievers and infidels or not?

    For everyone there is a time they need to ponder this very carefully and decide. Read and decide if they want to believe the Jews distorted the Gospel disciples of Jesus’ Accounts of Jesus life and Resurrection or not.

    Do you have an ear that can hear or not?

  141. Yes Muslims made great contributions to science. But like the Catholics who used to torture people who disagreed with them; That was many centuries in the past. How many Muslims have won a Nobel prize for anything? Other than terrorism what contributions to society have Muslims made in the last 100 years?

  142. “This is our home and we are gonna make it better. Muslims have contributed much here and will continue, while time passes by you and leaves your hate filled ideology in the dustbin.”
    ….Islam will fill the void left and soon enough, our black flag will hang over the White House!

  143. Abu Sinan, I am getting it from all sides, you seem to do well amongs the most hardened Hamas supporter. As for “friends”, having never commented on LGF, I wouldn’t know.

    First, Ibn Sabeel, thank you for the compliment. I like the fact that we can disagree without being disagreeable. Shall we…

    Ibn Sabeel – “Do you know what sharia’ is? Look Sharia’ is not even practiced in Kashmir”

    It seems that Sharia is a bit like utopian Marxism. Nations that practice it never seem to work out and those who support it seem to believe it is never “properly” implimented. Out of all the nations that self-identify with Islamic law (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria (north), Sudan, Pakistan, Gaza, etc..), none have the qualities I associate with basic freedoms. The fact that in Canada, Muslim woman took to the street to protest against Sharia seems to me that many Muslims agree.

    Ibn Sabeel – “Do you know about the atrocities of the Indian army in Kashmir? The rapes, the murder, the mutilation and torture?”

    True, very tryue! But in all fairness, in the horrible conflicts in South Asia, Hindus easily got the worse end of that deal. India’s, Pakistan’s, and Bangladesh’s demographics are a legacy of this.

    Ibn Sabeel – “the West has done a dispicable job of discerning between those Muslims who are remaining faithful to Islam and addressing Muslim grievances”

    I think one of the problems is that there seem to be so many grievances, almost as if victomization complex is part of the ideology. I can’t help feel that what other nations call “challenges” and works to overcome them, the Islamic world calls the same acts “grivences” and “aggression” and uses it as an excuse to remain static while others thrive.

    Ibn Sabeel – “The Muslim Brotherhood is not the same as Al’Qaida! Hizbollah is not the same as the Taliban!”

    The Muslim’s Brotherhood slogan “Quran is our constitution, Jihad is our way, dying for allah is our greatest wish” is hard to diffriencate from Al-Qaida. TMB seems to be trying to take advantage of Muslims higher birth-rate and democracy rather than terror, but their goals seem to be the same. As for Hizbollah, being a Jew I am probably not the most objective person in this matter (using the Nazi salute is not a way to win hearts), but I would say that their ability and willingness to completely destroy Lebanon’s vibrant economy since the end of the war for their own power speaks volumes. Christian Lebanon is dissapearing, and Hezbollah’s posters of Khohemi and decapitated Jews are taking over. It’s very sad.

    But why should the west try to distingush the various Jihadists groups when they themselves don’t either? Iran supports Hizbollah, Muslim Brotherhood supports Hamas who team with Swords of Islam (Al-Quada), who side with the Taliban who are supported by Pakistan. Its hard to know who wants to enforce Sharia by the sword, and who wants to do it through the electerate. I do unfortinately acknowledge that in a democratic world, the Muslim Brotherhood would win easily in almost every Arab country.

    Either way, I trully believe the west must stand up to Sharia. Although I am guessing we disagree on this point.

  144. Abu Sinan
    April 10th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
    “It would seem that the vistors from LGF have some serious issues. Is that you Kaffir, oh Son of Polish Pogroms?”

    I’m not sure what you mean. These attacks back and forth without any substance are boring me so I’ll leave you with this: I don’t care what you believe, I don’t care if you want to be a muslim or not, I don’t care if you believe that women who don’t wear the veil are uncovered meat and I don’t care if you think I am a descendant of apes and pigs. All I would ask of the muslim world, and I think all any of us kaffir really want from you is to please stop killing us, thanks!

  145. “can a muslim please explain to me how they sleep at night knowing their prophet had sex with a 9 year old girl……….”

    What you fail to understand is that she was 9 in Islam years which would equate to approximately 12 in western years. So, 12 is ready to procreate.

  146. @ Kareem Abdul Jabbar

    The last time I checked, my post wasn’t intended to you directly, so stop deeming yourself worthy of my sole attention. My post was in response to Umar, who shot his mouth off about the racist, hate-filled posters at LGF. I offered a challenge: Find these alleged “racist, hate-filled” comments and post them here, and I will counter with a “racist, hate-filled” comment from a respected and credible Muslim leader. It’s that easy. If you want to come out and paint someone a racist, you’d better be ready to back up your statement.

    So, in the spirit of my original challenge, I give you Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ruhollah Mosavi Khomeini: “A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives”.

  147. Is professional boxing for the sake of Islam allowed?

    According to Shari’ah, one may engage in sports activities to enhance good health or preparation for Jihaad.

    Both the facts are not found in boxing. In fact, boxing is a danger to health and life. Many boxers have lost their lives in the ring due to head injuries. The icon of boxing, Muhammad Ali, who also has the honour of the only boxing professional to regain the heavyweight title three times is presently suffering from Parkinsons and many others sicknesses due to his career. It is not permissible to engage in any activity that will endanger one’s health. According to Shari’ah, boxing as a sport is not permissible. The income will be Makrooh.

    and Allah Ta’ala Knows Best

    Mufti Ebrahim Desai
    FATWA DEPT.

  148. Abu Sinan
    April 10th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
    “can a muslim please explain to me how they sleep at night knowing their prophet had sex with a 9 year old girl……….”

    What you fail to understand is that she was 9 in Islam years which would equate to approximately 12 in western years. So, 12 is ready to procreate.

    what a load of bull, you using Al-taqiyya again.

    ok how do you sleep at night knowing she was 12

  149. …But that a camel-merchant should stir up insurrection in his village; that in league with some miserable followers he persuades them that he talks with the angel Gabriel; that he boasts of having been carried to heaven, where he received in part this unintelligible book, each page of which makes common sense shudder; that, to pay homage to this book, he delivers his country to iron and flame; that he cuts the throats of fathers and kidnaps daughters; that he gives to the defeated the choice of his religion or death: this is assuredly nothing any man can excuse, at least if he was not born a Turk, or if superstition has not extinguished all natural light in him.

    -Voltaire, Letter to Frederick II of Prussia, December 1740

  150. “ok how do you sleep at night knowing she was 12”

    And what may I ask is wrong with 12? Many men sleep with their daughters when they obtain such age. It is better they know the art of procreation for the pleasure of their future husband.

  151. I am sure it is clear to all that the LGF idiots are playing like children again and cloning names.

    Wow, I hope these arent the people fighting the war on terror, if they are we are lost!

  152. Abu Sinan – “And what may I ask is wrong with 12? Many men sleep with their daughters when they obtain such age. It is better they know the art of procreation for the pleasure of their future husband.”

    G-d I hope you are being sarcastic (I think you are or that is not the real Abu Sinan) because that is just sick.

    The shame of this post is that no one will bother to read any of Umar Lee’s previous post which defend liberty far better than LGF ever could.

  153. Jordan,

    We might not agree on Israel but you read my blog long enough to know I wouldnt write something like this.

    This is just the new “Protocols of theLearned Elders of Zion” in action here Jordan.

    Sooner or later you’ll see that what you are living in now is just like Germany and Europe in the 1920s and 1930s. They are using anything and everything as an excuse to hate Muslims and Islam. Even here they are calling for mass murder and genocide.

    It is amazing you dont see it.

  154. Quotes on The Prophet Mohammed by famous people:

    Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in ‘Young India,’1924.
    I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind…. I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Sir George Bernard Shaw in ‘The Genuine Islam,’ Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.
    “If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam.”
    “I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him – the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity.”

    “I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”

    ——————————————————————————–

    Michael Hart in ‘The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons In History,’ New York, 1978.
    My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. …It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. …It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Dr. William Draper in ‘History of Intellectual Development of Europe’
    Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born in Mecca, in Arabia, the man who, of all men, has exercised the greatest influence upon the human race… To be the religious head of many empires, to guide the daily life of one-third of the human race, may perhaps justify the title of a Messenger of God.

    ——————————————————————————–

    J.W.H. Stab in ‘Islam and its Founder’
    Judged by the smallness of the means at his disposal, and the extent and permanence of the work that he accomplished, his name in world’s history shines with a more specious lustre than that of the Prophet of Makkah. To the impulse which he gave numberless dynasties have owed their existence, fair cities and stately palaces and temples have arisen, and wide provinces became obedient to the Faith. And beyond all this, his words have governed the belief of generations, been accepted as their rule of life, and their certain guide to the world to come. At a thousand shrines the voices of the faithful invoke blessings on him, whom they esteem the very Prophet of God, the seal of the Apostles…. Judged by the standards to human renown, the glory of what mortal can compare with his?

    ——————————————————————————–

    Washington Irving in ‘Life of Muhammad,’ New York, 1920.
    His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vain glory as they would have done had they been effected by selfish purposes. In the time of his greatest power he maintained the same simplicity of manner and appearance as in the days of his adversity. So far from affecting regal state, he was displeased if, on entering a room, any unusual testimonial of respect was shown to him.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Arthur Glyn Leonard in ‘Islam, Her Moral and Spiritual Values’
    It was the genius of Muhammad, the spirit that he breathed into the Arabs through the soul of Islam that exalted them. That raised them out of the lethargy and low level of tribal stagnation up to the high watermark of national unity and empire. It was in the sublimity of Muhammad’s deism, the simplicity, the sobriety and purity it inculcated the fidelity of its founder to his own tenets, that acted on their moral and intellectual fiber with all the magnetism of true inspiration.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Charles Stuart Mills in ‘History of Mohammadanism’
    Deeply read in the volume of nature, though extremely ignorant of letters, his mind could expand into controversy with the wisest of his enemies or contract itself to the apprehension of meanest of his disciples. His simple eloquence was rendered impressive by a manner of mixed dignity and elegance, by the expression of a countenance where the awfulness of his majesty was so well tempered by an amiable sweetness, that it exerted emotions of veneration and love. He was gifted with that authoritative air or genius which alike influences the learned and commands the illiterate.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Philip K. Hitti in ‘History of the Arabs’
    Within a brief span of mortal life, Muhammad called forth of unpromising material, a nation, never welded before; in a country that was hitherto but a geographical expression he established a religion which in vast areas suppressed Christianity and Judaism, and laid the basis of an empire that was soon to embrace within its far flung boundaries the fairest provinces the then civilized world.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Stanley Lane-Poole in ‘Studies in a Mosque’
    He was one of those happy few who have attained the supreme joy of making one great truth their very life spring. He was the messenger of One God, and never to his life’s end did he forget who he was or the message which was the marrow of his being. He brought his tidings to his people with a grand dignity sprung from the consciousness of his high office, together with a most sweet humility.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Rodwell in the Preface to his translation of the Holy Qur’an
    Mohammad’s career is a wonderful instance of the force and life that resides in him who possesses an intense faith in God and in the unseen world. He will always be regarded as one of those who have had that influence over the faith, morals and whole earthly life of their fellow men, which none but a really great man ever did, or can exercise; and whose efforts to propagate a great verity will prosper.

    ——————————————————————————–

    W. Montgomery Watt in ‘Muhammad at Mecca,’ Oxford, 1953.
    His readiness to undergo persecution for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as a leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement – all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems that it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad…. Thus, not merely must we credit Muhammad with essential honesty and integrity of purpose, if we are to understand him at all; if we are to correct the errors we have inherited from the past, we must not forget the conclusive proof is a much stricter requirement than a show of plausibility, and in a matter such as this only to be attained with difficulty.

    ——————————————————————————–

    D. G. Hogarth in ‘Arabia’
    Serious or trivial, his daily behavior has instituted a canon which millions observe this day with conscious memory. No one regarded by any section of the human race as Perfect Man has ever been imitated so minutely. The conduct of the founder of Christianity has not governed the ordinary life of his followers. Moreover, no founder of a religion has left on so solitary an eminence as the Muslim apostle.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Washington Irving ‘Mahomet and His Successors’
    He was sober and abstemious in his diet and a rigorous observer of fasts. He indulged in no magnificence of apparel, the ostentation of a petty mind; neither was his simplicity in dress affected but a result of real disregard for distinction from so trivial a source.
    In his private dealings he was just. He treated friends and strangers, the rich and poor, the powerful and weak, with equity, and was beloved by the common people for the affability with which he received them, and listened to their complaints.

    His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vain glory, as they would have done had they been effected for selfish purposes. In the time of his greatest power he maintained the same simplicity of manners and appearance as in the days of his adversity. So far from affecting a regal state, he was displeased if, on entering a room, any unusual testimonials of respect were shown to him. If he aimed at a universal dominion, it was the dominion of faith; as to the temporal rule which grew up in his hands, as he used it without ostentation, so he took no step to perpetuate it in his family.

    ——————————————————————————–

    James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70.
    “No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience.”
    “Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshiped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five his employer recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her and as long as she lived remained a devoted husband.”

    “Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word sensing his own inadequacy. But the Angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: “There is one God”.”

    “In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred and rumors of God ‘s personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, ‘An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being’.”

    “At Muhammad’s own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: ‘If there are any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you Worshiped, He lives for ever’.”

    ——————————————————————————–

    Lawrence E. Browne in ‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944
    Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.

    ——————————————————————————–

    K. S. Ramakrishna Rao in ‘Mohammed: The Prophet of Islam,’ 1989
    My problem to write this monograph is easier, because we are not generally fed now on that (distorted) kind of history and much time need not be spent on pointing out our misrepresentations of Islam. The theory of Islam and sword, for instance, is not heard now in any quarter worth the name. The principle of Islam that “there is no compulsion in religion” is well known.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Jules Masserman in ‘Who Were Histories Great Leaders?’ in TIME Magazine, July 15, 1974
    Perhaps the greatest leader of all times was Mohammad, who combined all the three functions. To a lesser degree Moses did the same

  155. “For a videodocumentary of the history of Islamic Contribution to Western Civilization, particularly Spain, please obtain PBS Video series, Islam: Empire of Faith”

    Ha ha ha.
    PBS a Leftwing propaganda out let. The Left is promoting Ilslam since you guys are allies. Why doesn’t any of these documentary discuss the genocidal Jihad of the 7th Cedntury?
    Hmmm.
    What happened to Carthage when the Muslims took it?
    Hmmm?

    Why don’t you read Books by Bat Yeor and explains the Dhimmi(Apartheid) System in the Islamic empire.
    Islam was spread the sword and you continue to deny this. You stole other’s civilization and achievements and claimed it as yours.
    I know more about your Dog hating Cult than you.

  156. But that a capenter should stir up insurrection in his village; that in league with some miserable followers he persuades them that when he talks he is the Son of God; that he boasts of forgiving everyone’s sins, He claims to talk to God, each page of which his apostles wrote makes common sense shudder; that, to pay homage to this book, to the cross, he delivers his countries to crusades, pogroms and aut de fes; that he sends his followers to pit father against son, brother against brother; that he gives to the defeated the choice of believing he is the Son of God or roast in Hell: this is assuredly nothing any man can excuse, at least if he was not born a Jew, or if superstition has not extinguished all natural light in him. As he said, he comes not to bring peace, rather the sword.

    -Voltaire,(If he was not Christian) in a Letter to Frederick II of Prussia, December 1740

  157. Jordan,

    We might not agree on Israel but you read my blog long enough to know I wouldnt write something like this.

    This is just the new “Protocols of theLearned Elders of Zion” in action here Jordan.

    Sooner or later you’ll see that what you are living in now is just like Germany and Europe in the 1920s and 1930s. They are using anything and everything as an excuse to hate Muslims and Islam. Even here they are calling for mass murder and genocide.

    It is amazing you dont see it. They just want us dead like the Nazis wanted the Jews dead. Though that was not necessarily a bad thing, now we know what they are after.

    Woos us, for we are misunderstood and persecuted for our beliefs, our religion. What they will never understand is that Islam IS PEACE. It is not a perversion for the sake of engaging in sexual activities with 9 year old girls.

    The Islamophobes are here and as you can see, they are out go get us all.

  158. Abu Sinan
    I also piss and Burnt a Koran in front of Saudi Embassy in Washington.
    Trust me when the time comes will exterminate your kind out of this country.
    We don’t want you and your stinking Dog hating Cult here.

  159. ” What they will never understand is that Islam IS PEACE. ”

    Haha yes, pecae throug submission right.
    God wnat people to love him not be he’s slave and submitt.
    Screw Allah!

  160. Joker,

    Your only “joke” is your words. Our kind? I am American by birth you idiot. Your English makes me think you are not American by birth or have the education of a fifth grader.

  161. Tom,

    It is clear all of you hear that hate Islam are the ones crying. Islam and Muslims are here in the USA to stay, we will never leave and there is nothing you can do about it.

    How do you like them apples?

  162. Abdul Jabbar-

    “I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks for that! I needed a laugh. How do you explain the threat of death for apostasy? Or the threat of death for even questioning the koran? Or the threat of submission, conversion or death in any land the muslims took over?

    Ever hear of Lebanon?

  163. I never asked muslims to leave America. I only ask that they give non-muslims the same respect as they expect for themselves.

    Is that too much to ask Abu S?

    If not, you know it will only get nastier.

  164. Again, the post directly above this one is not mine.

    Umar, next time close comments for a post like this. I am done with this thread, anything after this is an idiot name cloner, not myself.

  165. why are you here please explain ..

    look

    Bukhari:V4B52N233 “Allah’s Apostle forbade the people to travel to a hostile country carrying copies of the Qur’an. [He said:] Unbelievers will never understand our signs and revelations.”

    “I disavow myself of any Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

    please explain

  166. ::: The Prophet said, ‘I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women.’ :::

    Oh yeah… such a tolerant religion.

  167. Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah:

    “Let the entire world hear me. Our hostility to the Great Satan is absolute. … I conclude my speech with the slogan that will continue to reverberate on all occasions so that nobody will think that we have weakened. Regardless of how the world has changed after 11 September, Death to America will remain our reverberating and powerful slogan: Death to America.”

  168. Or from the hadith:

    I heard the Prophet saying. ‘Evil omen is in three things: The horse, the woman and the house.’

    Not dogs? huh.

    Woman gave every one of you life. Show some respect.

  169. Abu,
    Too bad. We don’t want your cult here American or not. Enjoy the protection of your Leftist allies. Once they’re gone nobody will protect you.
    Unlike you Abu my ancestors were in this continent before yours. I have more right to this land that a dog hating cultist like you.
    We will exterminate you!
    Mark my words, we lurk in the shadows waiting till the day we will burn your Mosques and wrpa your bodies in Pig Skin.
    America will never follow Sharia.

  170. And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).
    ———————

    So, as a woman my word isn’t worth as much as a man’s? Nice. Where do I sign up? NOT.

  171. Sura 2:282:

    The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’ (Bukhari)
    —————————————–

    Wonder what the feminist will feel when they start understanding what it is that islam preaches…

  172. M,
    The reason that the Pedophile Prophet hated Dogs is becauswe they chased him.
    Those dogs were onto something!

  173. m,
    You are correct. Perhaps, if you had been properly trained from a young age, you would have found happiness. Instead, you live a tortured existence as a slave to decadent western culture. I feel sorry for you, as your family has not cared for you and has left you to fend for yourself.

  174. Bukhari:V7B71N590 “The climate of Medina did not suit some people so the Prophet ordered them to drink camel urine as a medicine.”

  175. I have to say that many of the comments being left here by LGFers are vile and embarassing to me as someone who frequents the site.

    That said (and unlike the so-called Muslim leaders in America such as Ibrahim Cooper who refuse to condemn terrorist groups such as Hizballah, I’m certainly willing to condemn some of these idiots and trolls), they ARE just words. Words do not blow up pizza parlours or city busses. Words do not send rockets into nurseries. Words do not behead schoolchildren and teachers. This is the essential difference between Muslims and non-Muslims: non-Muslims savage Islam with words. Islamists slaughter their “infidel” opponents with bombs, guns, and knives, all for the glory of Allah.

    And to those of you who use the convenient excuse that speaking out against extremism will be ignored so you might as well not bother: that attitude creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. When only the radical Islamists speak for Islam, then their philosophy becomes Islam. If that’s the face you want modern Islam to reveal, so be it… Just bear in mind that sooner or later there will be a tipping point in western civilization, where words give way to deeds, and rational minds are unable to restrain the backlash.

    In short: worry less about taking cheap shots at Charles Johnson, and more about speaking out to denouce the extremists in your own house.

  176. Bukhari:V1B4N174 “During the lifetime of Allah’s Apostle dogs used to urinate and pass through the mosque. Nevertheless they never used to sprinkle water on it.”

  177. Sura (24:4) – “And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them…”

    Sura (24:13) – “Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah.”

  178. Impostor, impostor… any knowledgeable Muslim would know that modern teachings proscribe the drinking of ones own urine for medicinal purposes. You have been outed, you impostor.

  179. Why would I want to follow a religion that says I am nothing but uncovered meat? Why would I want to follow a religion that sanctions the murder of those who do not “submit”.

    Jesus is a lot nicer than Mo’ , and Christianity says women are equal to men. Why you all are afraid of women………well, if you let women have their rightful positions, they might show what morons you are!

  180. Pickle,
    There already many here in America on the tipping point. We’re just waiting for an excuse, to burn the Mosques and storm the Saudi and other Muslim embassies.

  181. I thought islam was a religion and not a race. I guess you can just call me stupid, but I didn’t think discussing religion/political ideology (which islamis) was racist. Anybody have a dictionary?

  182. Bukhari:V1B4N139 “I asked Allah’s Apostle about a person who imagined they passed wind during prayer. He replied: ‘He should not leave his prayer unless he hears sound or smells something.'”

  183. hey Cat Meat! I hope you are covered!

    We wouldn’t want any of the muslim mens to have to rely on self-restraint now would we?

    If not- it’s on you! Ask a muslim.

  184. Bukhari:V7B71N673 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘If a fly falls in your drink, dip all of it into the cup and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing, an antidote or treatment for that disease.'”

  185. Islam isn’t a religion. It’s a pedophilic, genocidal, dog hating, women hating 7th century Moon god worshipping Death Cult!

  186. Hey abu, are you showing us all the really stupid verses, keep it up. They are FUNNY! But seriously do muslims actually believe them.

  187. I get it, Abu, you are pretending to be a muslim, giving us verses so that we can better understand the absurdities of islam. Thanks.

  188. Abu- no thanks, I left my glasses at home!

    Oh here is another good one:
    Sura (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them”

    Not spread by the sword, huh?

  189. 009.029
    YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
    SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

  190. Bukhari:V7B71X697 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘If you awake and you find that your manhood stands tall and erect, find a fly and place him upon your manhood. Speak to the fly and ask him that he leave his excrement upon your manhood. For, within his excrement, is a mechanism, which will allow your manhood to remain strong and erect and ready for its inevitable use throughout your day. The fly, you must be sure to drown within a small amount of your nectar, thus preparing it for your ingestion.’”

  191. I hate to muddy the waters of this clear hate-fest, but could anyone address the verses from the Quran that I and (very few) others presented? I was told I was wrong about Islam hating Jews, I posted verses supporting why I believe that way, and no one has yet to be able to show that those verses and my interprestation of them are incorrect.
    It’d be nice if everyone would stop the personal attacks and just address facts that we can analyze in a civil manner. Even if our analysis concludes at opposites, we can still reach those conclusions in an adult manner.

  192. Yes, yes, yes, Islam hates the dirty jews. Why? Because they kill our children and bake their blood into pasties. Then they force western woman to dance naked while wearing the pasties made of our childrens blood. Yes, we admit it, we hate them from before the beginning of time until after the end of time.

  193. Bukhari:V1B7N163 “The Prophet said, ‘One must never insert an even number of stones into his anus, even if inserting an even number of stones enhances ones pleasure.’

  194. Very interesting.

    Having just read through the comments here… it seems to me that the regulars here want to use comments posted from “LGF idiots” as a reason not to reply to other comments and questions that may not be so easy to deal with…but legitimate none the less. Not all comments have been mindless babble…interesting points have gone unanswered.

    Yeah, there’s a lot of hate in some of those comments. What do you think is at the root of it?

  195. Here are some examples of modern lynching: 1) Shias killing Sunnis and vice versa. 2) Daniel Pearl was lynched. They asked him if he was aJew and when he affirmed that they killed him. 3)do honor killings count? Really, when you post these kind of things you are saying more about yourself than any other blog.

  196. I am new to this site and will try to be repsectful. There is a fundamental problem of referring to those critical of Islam as “racists”, beyond the obvious that Islam is religious ideology and not a race.

    In the 7th century, when Muhammad created Allah and ultimately Islam, it was a socio-political tool to serve his means, and it served him well. The first problem is that an ideology suited for the 7th century does not translate well in the 21st century. The Qur’an, or the literal words of Allah, are immutable, or at least are now since the Islamic scholars stopped debating about the meaning of the passages, effectively declaring the gates of ijtihad closed about 1000 years ago. Effectively, Islam is as Islam was long ago.

    Therein lies the main problem. Most major world religions, with the noted exception of Islam, underwent considerable reformation historically. One can not adhere strictly to the Qur’an and not allow others to question it’s intent and meaning, especially since the unchangeable words are there for public view. Robert Spencer is aware of this and points out the intolerant verses in the Qur’an, not as a slanderous side-note to an ideology long since forgotten, but rather one that is applied today, with examples too numerous to mention. Once again, these examples, invoked and applied in the name of Allah are current events, not ancient history. This reality is not something non-Muslims should remain silent about, lest they offend, nor should Muslims who disagree with their brethren either. It is the actions of those who supposedly are Islamic heretics, commiting atrocious acts against infidels everywhere, coupled with the conspicuous silence of the “majority of moderate Muslims”, that gives Spencer’s words and others of his ilk, absolute credence.

    Islam is corrupt as many institutions and ideologies are. The main distinction is the degree. Those who currently act in the name of Allah, commiting deeds deemed as abhorrent to the sane and compassionate, is what reveals Islam, shedding a much-needed light on the subject. Beheadings, suicide attacks, ethnic genocide, gender discrimination; these are examples of the problems amongst those almost exclusively in the camp of Islam. It is in the age of youtube, when one can watch this or that Islamist on one forum say all the things the non-Islmaic West want to hera, and then three days later be seen in more comfortable surroundings leading a “death to America” chant. This evokes a response, not an irrational Islamophobic, racist response, but rather a response of undeniable common-sense.

    it is not the non-Islamic West’s responsibility to sit tight for another 1300+ years waiting for the reformation of Islam to begin, as it is not our obligation to remain silent, ignoring all that we see and hear. This responsibility lies solely on the Muslim masses, to take back their religion that we would have believed, was unfortunately hijacked by a few bad apples. That statement is hollow and just doesn’t ring true to the sentient mind.

    Stating the obvious which offends others, effectively accruing the racist label, is not the problem. Islam, as it is applied today is, coupled with the lack of public denouncement of those who do not respect the basic human rights of the infidel, is. We cannot be told we are wrong to feel this way. We need to be proven wrong. We want to be proven wrong. We really do wish that jihad meant inner spiritual struggle, alone, but with each passing, well-documanted utterance by this or that Imam, calling for all-out jihad warfare, the other meaning that is not spoken about in the MSM, we tend to remain quite skeptical.

    This by no means however, renders us racists.

    Regards.

  197. Pathetic Islamist rants is becoming so old. Just read any fundamentalist Web site and you’ll see and hear all the same stuff. Not content to live in peace you all seek to expunge the Kafir and claim all lands as your own.

  198. Islamophobia is just another code word to silence freethinkers who do not submit to oppression and political correctness dictated from self-appointed leaders. For anyone to equate Islamophobia with racism or anti-semitism, shows the intellectual ignorance of those who are now tacitly supporting misogyny, subjugation of children, oppression of unbelievers and non-Muslims, and advocating the elimination of critics, apostate and blasphemers.

  199. Ok, LGF’s who are impersonating people, knock it off!! You are embarassing me and every other defender of westearn civilization.

    Abu Sinan – “Sooner or later you’ll see that what you are living in now is just like Germany and Europe in the 1920s and 1930s. They are using anything and everything as an excuse to hate Muslims and Islam. Even here they are calling for mass murder and genocide.”

    When the hell did the Jews suicide bomb or threaten the security of gentiles in the 20’s and 30’s?

    You are confusing “hate” with “fear”. Europe hated the Jews, just as the Islamic world does now. On the other hand, Europe fears Islam and sharia law and fears living next to Muslims and mosques. True, all too often this fear is far overblown, but your insistance that this fear comes from nothing is equally absurd.

    Hatred comes from humiliation, the need to blame others for your own failures rather than accept responsibility. This is what happened to Europe in the 30’s, its what happened the Islamic world now.

    Fear on the other hand is much more rational. It comes from the worry that the countless Jihad attacks will finally suceed and loved ones will be hurt. Like I said, no one feared the Jews, people do fear Islam.

    Futhermore, many in the west are upset that Christian nations grant their Muslims citizens with full rights and freedoms and Muslim nations will never do the same. If the west permits thousands of new mosques to be built and the Islamic world tears down churches and buddhist statues, doesn’t Islam will win by default? The lack of the golden rule of reciprocity is undeniable and problematic.

    Abu Sinan, your continuing insistance that Muslims are “the new Jews” is not matched by the actions of Muslims or the responses by Kaffirs. The violent response to a few cartoons is indicative that Muslim grivences are more about a culture of victomhood and the desire to believe everybody is out to get them than actual reality itself.

  200. Cat Meat coughed up this furball –

    “Christianity says women are equal to men”.

    Really? Ever read that book known as The Bible? You might want to look into it before trying to sound smart again…

    Regarding other comments –

    Wow – LGFrs get all frothed up when someone (correction – anyone) calls them bigoted, while travelling around en masse spewing this hateful, bigoted venom? Hilarious – You people are frikkin’ walking, breathing cliches…

  201. What race is Islam? And how do you dare minimize the horror of the lynching portrayed by comparing it to this; what you percieve to be verbal assault?
    The commentary condemned the commentaries of CJ of LGF and proceeded to do the same thing the author accuses CJ of doing. The author then permits the posters to post writings worse than I have seen on LGF and almost approaches that of Kos or Huffington.
    Now, as I was looking at the picture of the lynching, I got the feeling of deja vu’. I saw photos just like that, except they were people being hung by construction cranes in Iran by being slowly hoisted up. Why? For crimes like being gay.

  202. @ lefty,

    I am not a LGF’er, but I believe their points are valid, the actual words in their comments aside.

    If you read my post, would you consider me a bigot?

    Just wondering.

    Regards.

  203. lefty- My questions have gone unanswered. And there was nothing hateful or bigoted about questioning their reasoning.

    Of course- unless you don’t like the answers they refuse to give because you know it’s true.

    Like this:
    ——-
    Seanybaby

    “Keep on wallowing in your ignorance.”

    ah…perhaps I need to submit to the pure, undiluted hatred, misoginy and intolerance of islam. Then I can be enlightened enough to hate at full throttle!!!!
    ——-

    Questioning the INTOLERANCE of islam is intolerant? Heh.

  204. A hero like the nobody that runs this site hanging up some festive ornaments to please his heathen Muslim friends. I bet that rabid racist has this picture on his cave wall in Torah Borah. “The good ol’ days!”

  205. I think Umar Lee needs a registration system. Thank g-d Umar’s other posts, which are commendable, haven’t been destroyed by the anonymous comments of imbeciles.

    “Islam blows”?! C’mon, your making the rest of us look like jerks!

    I hope Umar Lee takes down this post. It demeans both sides, and I must admit, far below this site’s standards.

    And the LGF’s who are impersonating Abu Sinan…

    1. Grow up
    2. Your shooting yourself in the foot. Personally, I find his actual comments far more offensive! :)

    (seriously, we drive each other nuts and the fact that we have to team up against LGF makes me want to kick my own ass)

  206. Jordan,
    I n order for the US to survive Muslims must be deported or if they resist exterminated.
    Their Leftist allies should get it too!

  207. Lefty, I do ready my Bible

    Galatians 3:26-29

    “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized in Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all on in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

    Non of this two women = one man crap.

  208. Racism?! What race exactly is Islam? Is it Arab (Saudis)? Is it Asian (Indonesia)? Is it Indian (Pakistan)? Is it African (Sudan)? Is it Caucasian (Croatia)?

    Spencer et al are not racists, and you resort to impotent, meaningless race-baiting because you simply can’t debate intelligent people who know everything about your vile cult of death and its bloody history, its sanction for rape, mutilation, slave trading, racism (“his head looks like a raisin” rings a bell?), pedophilia, Arab-supremacism and global domination. You are scared of informed kuffar who are conversant in the Islamic vernacular and who understand the meanings of words such as jizya, qitman, tuquq, dawa, dhimmi, jihad, dar al harb, kuffar, etc., and who diligently inform other kuffar about what the religion of submission really is.

  209. I’m annoying, self righteous and pretend to hate LGFers who impersonate people, but really hate anyone who doesn’t think the way I do. I also add phrases like “your making the rest of us look like jerks!” You see, “the rest of us,” I’m just like you but more honorable.

  210. WOW! Much ado folks! I personally dont give a rat’s ass what non-Muslims have to say about Islam and Muslims. It will all be sorted out before the end of time, and again on the Day of Judgement. Give them enough rope and let them go about their business–no pun intended by the rope comment…

  211. Oh yes. People from LGF were old fifty years ago. They are eternal I guess.
    The owner of this site is so crazy that he believes that people can live to be 150 and still have the strength to build one of the most powerful blogs in the web.
    The next thing this nut will say is that people from LGF must be worshiped because they are eternal!
    I’m happy I belong to the Reality Based Community and not to the likes of the psycho who runs this joint.

    Hey man! Pst. Here come the Martians! They’re coming to take you away ha ha! Wear your tinfoil hat, quick! That way you’ll be impenetrable to Martian Zionist rays that destroy the minds of weaklings and feeble-minded morons like you hahahahahaha.

  212. Quit with your car bombs and suicide attacks. Also Western Mulsims should condem such attrocities. As long as you don’t – then you’re lumped in with them.

    That is the way it is.

  213. American Kuffar, replace the word “Muslims” with “African Americans” and you have plain racism. Replace “Muslims” with “Hispanics” and you have plain racism. Replace “Muslims” with “Far East Asians” and you have racism.

    Islam not being a race does NOT give anybody the right to this attitude. Either that, or you’d approve of racism in its correct meaning. Your choice.

  214. 1) These people (Malkin, LGF, Spencer…) are not bigots. You must not understand the true meaning of the words you sling at people, or you have never actually read the things they write…because they are clearly not BIGOTS. Rather, they are clearly champions of ENLIGHTENMENT IDEALS which you must know have heard of.
    2) You undermine the cause of true equality and an end to racism by making such moronic attacks on people. You are literally belittling the suffering that people actually go through from REAL racism by trying to equate what LGF or Spencer is about with the kind of racism shown in that picture.

    You are practicing the very art of DEMONIZATION that you shamelessly claim to DESPISE.

    Pot. Kettle.

  215. Well QuickRob, judging by the sentiment that’s running through LGF at the moment, I have no doubts that had these people existed in the 60s as they do now, they’d be exactly those people shown in the picture.
    The LGF crowds have proven to have their fair share of supremacists. Prove to me otherwise. As a prime example, I’ll present to you the Nazi scum called “Joker”, who proudly wants to exterminate all Muslims.

  216. The Sphinx- I present to you me. Who has never said kill anyone, much less just for being muslim.

    You can replace any of those words with muslim and it still doesn’t make it racist.

    Islam isn’t a race.

    There are arab muslims, black muslim, white muslims…

    Seriously- chose another hate filled, bigoted comment to sling at LGF. That one doesn’t work.

    Jordan- the “islam blows” comments are the only ones you guys see. I have asked many questions and made many points- all ignored.

    Would you answer me if I was the bigoted hater you claim I am?

  217. To the guy who just impersonated me and all the other LGF’s on here, I know for a FACT you never read anything else by Umar Lee.

    If you click on the “It’s a Consperacy” link on the right, you will see you guys are barking up the wrong tree!

    And no, I don’t mind disagreeing with LGF. Ironicaly, I am usually on your side and get called out for it.

    What does annoy me is so many children who cannot proudly and honorbly stand up for Western civilization and instead just defame and mock.

  218. I have read the koran and find muslims very amusing. You spend so much effort to lie and hide what the koran really says. the bible states that people will lie, be ashamed and hide behind false prophets and teachings in the end of times. It also states that christians will be hated only for their beliefs. I am honored to be hated by pedophiles, murderers, rapists, slavers and blasphemers all of which are encouraged in the koran. muslims are the evil and liberals are the blind. Go ahead and delete this as the truth just may get out!!

  219. m, I present to you me. A young Muslim student who has never killed, bombed or beheaded anybody, has lived in a Muslim country practically his whole life and hasn’t seen any signs of Muslim extremism in the circle of friends, who has Christian, Jewish and Atheist friends, believes in Jesus, Moses, Abraham and the rest of the Prophets as people sent from God, and the Bible and Torah as God’s message to mankind, along the Quran. (That kinds of breaks lots of stereotypes, doesn’t it).

    And no, it’s the “Islam is not a race” argument that doesn’t work. The comments said by some of the lizards are exactly the things that made Nazism work, not too long ago. It’s shameful that people who consider themselves so intellectual haven’t learned from history that this type of hate is wrong. And even though “racism” isn’t the appropriate term, whatever these people are doing is just as deplorable. And it’s not only judging Muslims for being Muslims, but Europeans for being Europeans, left-wingers for being left-wingers, and democrats for being democrats.

    Whatever you want to call it, it’s f***ing ridiculous and pathetic all the way. And I assume you don’t defend somebody who’d support the extermination of 1,4 billion people now, do you.

  220. Greg, you haven’t read the Quran. Either you’re lying, or you just looked up the ripped-out-of-context passages found on scummy Anti-Islamic hate sites on the net, or you read it with a severe pretext.. Kind of like:

    “*mumble mumble* The quran is evil, quran is evil.. What’s this.. ‘There is no coercion in religion’.. No wait, Quran is evil.. Evil, I tell you.. *mumble* ‘Do not let your conflicts with others provoke you into comitting injustice’.. Hm.. Nah, evil it is.. *mumble* evil.. *mumble* ‘God does not forbid you to respect those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly;.. Erm.. No no no, they told me this thing is evil.. *mumble mumble*.. ‘You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner’.. *silence*.. Quran is evil, Quran is evil..”

    That’s probably all you’re capable of.

    You’re not doing yourself a favour by spewing such statements here.

  221. @ Jordan,

    With all due respect, you must stop and think a second. Yes, there were several comments on this thread that were essentially useless due to their vitriolic nature.

    That being said, the thread itself, loaded with non-substantive insinuation and ad hominem attacks has effectively reaped what it has sown.

    Those who work to expose Islam and it’s not quite so warm and fuzzy tenets and deeply-rooted intolerance for other faiths deserve to be refuted by facts, not by intellectually lazy and irresponsible pictures in an attempt to create a correlation which quite simply, is not there.

    It is akin to the old adage; garbage in, garbage out.

    Regards.

  222. No one is advocating genocide.
    The truth is,islam is not compatible with the civilized world.
    The moslems above who are sure we want to convert (not a bad idea) you or kill you are looney. We didn’t start this…the jihad of modern times began with Arafat’s thugs in the 60’s. Bombings, hi-jackings, killing…all for islam, all for division of people.” The Israelis must get out!!! No body but moslems in the middle east!!!”
    You know what your texts say, why do you deny what the “prophet” said?
    There are 164 ayats about jihad in the qur’an, how many about love? Brotherhood of all men?
    “We have been made victorious through terror”
    Not exactly peace.

  223. Abu Sinan
    April 10th, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    Luke 22:36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors'[a]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

    38The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
    “That is enough,” he replied.
    Jesus considered physical swords as symbols of transgression. Two were enough for the meaning He gave to those who have an ear. The sword that Voltaire could not comprehend is the faith in Jesus that causes people to divide not because of race or family but by ideology.

    Luke 22:449When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” 50And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

    51But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.

    52Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? 53Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns.” Jesus said those who lift the sword shall die by the sword. He equates the use of the sword and clubs to the manifestation of reigning darkness. Who’s hour could it be if not Jesus’ hour?

  224. My dear ‘Sphinx’- you must be buying your logic by the pound.
    Hahaha! Its ‘Racism’, because you want to make believe that it is,- therefore being opposed to a perverted 7th century blood-cult makes one a ‘racist’…

    Yeah, and the Koran is the word of God because it sez so in the Koran…. right?

    Suggestion: Replace ‘Muslims’ with Nazi’s, Fascist-totalitarian maniacs, Barbarians, Cannibals, Mysogynistic Assholes and you are much closer to the truth.

    But why let facts confuse you?

  225. American Kuffar said:

    “You are scared of informed kuffar who are conversant in the Islamic vernacular and who understand the meanings of words such as jizya, qitman, tuquq, dawa, dhimmi, jihad, dar al harb, kuffar, etc., and who diligently inform other kuffar about what the religion of submission really is.”

    Now tell me, do you know ANY meaning of the following:
    ‘iiman, ehsan, sidq, amana, tawadoa’, zohd, sabr, tasamoh, rahma, aadl, waqar, ehtiram, silat al rahim, sadaqa, zakaa..

    I could bring many more. Look them all up.

    FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO LEARN ABOUT TRUE ISLAM, READ THIS ARTICLE DEBUNKING THE MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT IT:

    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html

  226. Umar? The spirit in which the photo of this thread was used mocks the dead, who’s blood still cries out for justice only God can and will bring. This spirit of using comes from reigning darkness. I would ask you think about it carefully and repent of it.

  227. mujahideen are not allowed to take young boys with no facial hair on to the battlefield or into their private quarters

  228. Words?Shmerds!

    Jizya, qitman, tuquq, dawa, dhimmi, jihad, dar al harb, kuffar, etc.,aren’t words.They are the weapons and tools of gangsters.

    Equivilents in other religions?
    Anyone?
    Anyone?
    Beuller?
    Beuller?

  229. awake, you have made some very interesting and worthy arguments which I tend to agree with.

    My point is that all these other clowns hurt the rest of us and put ammunition to our ideological opponents.

    Do you think anyone will remember your wonderful arguments when people say “exterminate” the Muslims?

    I mean, I wrote a lengthy post describing how anti-Islamism fear is NOT the same as anti-Jewish hatred of the 30’s only to have to read that type of crap.

  230. @ The Sphinx

    With all due respect, your last offering falls short of the mark. It is not relevant that non-Muslims are not familiar with all the terminology of Islam. That is the beauty of religious freedom. You have your’s and I have mine. I do not expect you to know all about Christianity. American Kuffar listed Islamic terms that he is familiar with and for a sensible reason. These terms are employed to further Islam’s sphere of influence, as mandated to all it’s adherents, in the Qur’an.

    Think realistically for a second. If Islam, as it existed historically, and is being applied today, were nothing more than just another live and let live ideology, choosing to ignore the ignorant non-believers, going about your business of spritual growth, would anyone have nothing better to do than to hang around sites like jihadwatch.org? Or better yet, would jihadwatch.org even exist?

    Think about that a second, if you will. Think about the word jihad and it’s dual meanings as well.

    You cannot expect all the infidels of the world, Christians alone a majority comparative to Muslims, to just sit back and unequivocally accept all things Islamic, especially in light of the realities of current world events. Exactly why can’t Islam be examined in any way? Is there nothing in Islam but perfection? Do you personally believe that Islam needs no reformation at all, or if you do, a precarious position at best, what exactly would you like to see changed?

    If you think Islam is to dominate and not be dominated, that no change is required, with the exception of the conversion to or subjugation to Islam from all others, then you personally reinforce the need for people like Robert Spencer’s existence, for as everybody knows, one man’s blessing is another’s curse.

    You are a professed student, probably in the UK, with your use of the ‘u’ in the word favour, but that is besides the point. Do you have any criticism of Islam, or a particular Islamist at all?

    I am genuinely appealing to your intellect here and not condemning Muslims or Islam as a whole. In your opinion, is there no substance whatsoever to Islamic watchdog sites, or hate sites, if you prefer?

    I anxiously await your reply.

    Regards.

  231. American Kuffar writes:

    “Is it Caucasian (Croatia)?”

    That should be “merican Idiot” not “Kuffar”. Croats are Catholic. Never been there I would guess!

  232. Yes, i agree,

    Islam kills more people every year than car accidents…but ann coulter is the bigger threat.

    Brilliant.

  233. Jordan,

    You need to learn a bit more about the roots of European anti-Semitism.

    There are two distinct threads involved. One is the classic idea that the Jews killed Jesus and hence are involved in everything bad happening in the world. They can be tied back to everything, international banking, usary, bribary, pornography and the like.

    Then there is the political aspect, and a real and consistant fear runs throughout this thread of anti-Semitism. There was a fear that Jews were actually out to rule the world. Not only that, they were out to actually destroy the Nordic races.

    It was felt that the Jews were out to destroy the Germanic races because they were the only block to world Jewish domination. When you say that the difference is between hate and fear, I contend that classic European anti-Semites both hated and fear Jews for what they felt were very palpable reasons.

    You talk about strapping on bombs and attacking gentiles, but you must know that political European anti-Semites feel that Jews did just that. Karl Marx was a Jew as well as the founder of Communism. Many leading members of the Communist movement were Jewish, Lenin, Trostsky, I could name hundreds.

    These European anti-Semites felt a real fear of the “Communist/Jewish hordes”. For them Communism was nothing more than a Jewish plot to rule the world. Communism was a political movement based on Jewish roots and themes.

    Remember the idea of communism is one people, no religion. These classic European anti-Semites feared that this was nothing more than a way to destroy the Europeans peoples, especially the Nordic peoples, in an attempt to comtrol the world under a Communist guide.

    No fear? Millions of German and other Europeans died fighting this “Jewish menace”. The fight against communism/Jews, was one of the major selling points that got Europeans to fight in the millions in German units during WW2.

    Yes, they hated and fear the Jews, a real fear, they felt that the Jews wanted to destroy their way of life, and the Jewish foundation and leadership of the communist movement was proof of this.

    So yeah, they fought and died in the hundreds of thousands against the “Jewish menace”. They hated and feared the Jews enough to slaughter them, men women and children.

    Just like the Serbs did in Srbrencia, mass murder of men women and children. Why? Because they felt that Muslims are out to rule the world, because the political movement founded by Muslims seeks to conquer the world.

    The “fear and hate” of Jews in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s is exactly as is today. You are just seeing the begining of it now.

    When they came for the homosexuals, I said nothing because I was not gay. When they came for the Muslims, I said nothing because I was not Muslim. When they came for the leftists, the trade unionists and people who were not Christian, I said nothing, these were not my people. When they came for me there was no one left to speak for me.

    Wake up Jordan. Look at these people you are aligning yourself with. Fight for the freedom of all, dont sign up to be the next Kapo.

  234. All kidding, hate, and pretentious analysis aside, Islam is a planetary cancer inflicted upon Earth by Satan. Only Satan could possibly have come up with a “religious” leader who lurked around in a cave for years supposedly taking dictation from an apparently very patient “angel”, with timeouts for the occasional pedophilic fling or bloodthirsty conquest. Like cancer, Islam will likely ravage the planet for a period of time before treatment becomes serious. Some lunatic Moslem (pardon the redundancy) will slaughter a bunch of American school children, or poison an American water supply for a major city, or nuke a U. S. city, and American attention will finally, and forcefully, focus its considerably attention on the malignancy that Islam is. At that point Islam, like a tumor, will be excised from the planet, probably in the form of massive nuclear retaliation resulting in the removal of a considerable amount of the earth’s crust from Syria to Pakistan. I doubt that there will be enough virgins in Islamic paradise to handle the sudden influx of devout, though recently vaporized, Moslem lunatics (again, pardon the redundancy).

  235. Just wondering, which race are Muslims? Second question: is it Germanophobic to hate Nazism or Russophobic to hate Communism? But Allah forbid you criticize the hatred that pervades Islam… Maybe if you guys spent more time denouncing terror and working to end racism and intolerace and less time accusing Spencer and others of libels, there would be no need for organizations like jihadwatch.

  236. Bar

    Just because we don’t have a fun little racial/religious/linguistic catch all like “Anti-semitism” doesn’t mean the concept isn’t the same.

    But, you know, thanks for trying. Fag.

  237. Abu Sufiyan
    It was Muslims who were aligned with Hitler. It’s Hitler’s Mein Kampf, called My Jihad that is one of the best selling books in the Islamic world.
    It’s an Aryan Muslim Ahamdinejad who called for a 2nd Holocaust against the Jews.
    The fact is you belong to suicidal Dog hating Death Cult!
    Your people areb just lucky the Left controls the West.
    Eventually we’ll get rid of them and then liberate America and Europe from Ilam.
    Then we’ll nuke Mecca and see what your Moon God allah will do!

  238. I just finsih having a threesome with Mohammad and his 9 year old girl friend Aisha!
    I must say young pussy is good!

  239. I’m glad every day more and more people are beginning to awake as to what a murderous, hateful, mediaeval and retarded religion islam is. In the beginning I thought islamists were just a faithful bunch of brave bidders like hindoes and buddhists, but finally I found out what a bunch of haters, and arrogant supremacists they really are. I’m not much of a warrior, but I’m glad to see that around me more and more people become aware how much this hate driven religion is becoming an unnecessary element in our contemporary modern civilization.
    I just expect this sect (as I don’t consider it a religion) will implode by itself by mere lack of usefulness (like hamas-plo and shia-sunni killings) going on.

  240. Every 9/11 Americans should gather in front of Mosques and Islamic nations embassies to piss and burn the Koran!

  241. Abu Sufiyan, while I am impressed with your knowledge of European anti-semetism, I must firmly disagree with your conclusions.

    First, I must object to the strong link between communism and Judiasm, specially with Marx who was in fact baptized a Christian. Yes, there were Jews involved in the movement, but communists were ultimately firmly anti-jewish as history has proven. As well, anti-semetism seemed to exist long before Marxism, as the “Protocols of Zion” where making the rounds early in the 20th century and is unfortinately taught to Arab school children today.

    Incedently, I find it interesting that Jews are equally blamed for the rise of capitolism.

    Futhermore, the linkage of Jews to plots of “taking over the world” were ultimately mythical not basis in fact. This week’s suicide bombing in Casablanca, Afganistan, and Iraq were unfortinately rooted in reality. As well, while Judiasm is not a proselitizing religion, Islam is proud of its aggressive growth through high birth rates, recruiting, and punishing those who leave the faith for Christianity. Again, this refusal of Europe to accept the facts on the ground reflect hatred more than logical fear.

    Like I said, while I sometimes feel the threat of home-grown terrorism is (purposely) overblown, I cannot simply state that fear of Islamic terrorism and Sharia has no basis in fact. Whether you live in Thailand, Russia, Morocco, or Yemen, the fear of violence in the name of Allah is very real.

    As far as “aligning” myself with these frieks who use childish name calling, call for genocide, and impersonate others, read my comments!!! I have defended Umar Lee five seperate times and proudly so. He stands for liberty and does not deserve all the negative attacks.

  242. Word Jordan. Yes it is nice that in this we can disagree without being disagreeable, we need more of that in this world.

    The issue of Sharia’ in the modern world and its practice is quite complex. My guess is most people who dont understand it conflate sharia’ as religious law, something akin to leviticus in the O.T., a rigid unchanging codex of law. This is not sharia, this understanding is mostly the result of the subjective understanding of their own background and experience with religious law(for more reading I suggest Tariq Ramadan’s books). The problem is not only are non-Muslims misinformed about it but so are many Muslims who have not been given the proper understanding and resort to zealous over emotional reaction, (the victimology you speak of). Sharia’ is basically, the path towards faithfulness. The laws dealing with punishment and so forth are something like 2% of the whole law and of course have specific conditions and reasoning behind them. Sharia’s purpose and objective as stated by scholars for over a milinea is to serve the “…interests of people.” That is what makes it unique from other world religions.
    To make wide, generalised statements that sharia=tyranny is to dismiss all muslim practice, because in one way or another sharia’ touches on it. Is only eating meat that is slaughtered in a specific way and in a manner that is least harmful to the animal tyranny? Is the banning of interest on loans tyranny? Is stating those of another religion have recourse to their own laws tyranny? and on and on…
    There has been an abuse of sharia’ from many in the muslim world, from corrupt leaders/governments using it as a tool, to clerics and self proffessed scholars using it to further their power and control, to Western elites and Enlightenment dogmatists who wish to push a clash of civilization or their own percieved universal values on others. In all this sharia’ is the real victim.
    Muslims today all over the world and certainly in the West are involved in a dialogue and reformation, it is in the words of TRamadan a “silent revolution” of how to apply these texts and these principles to our time and place. The solution is not as the West proposes to throw out Sharia, to dump it in the can, but to return to the sources. I am one of those who say we have a lot to learn from the West but at the same time I am confidant in who I am and what I believe and will be consistent in defending it against any oppressor whether muslim or not.
    As far as who got the worst of it in SE Asia, puhleeze man, this can be argued to the death. Pakistan was created for the very fear that Hindus would massacre Muslims once the Brits left. Still to this day Hindus live in Pakistan and we dont see the cries of suppression under Muslim yoke, just the other day it seems the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court was a Hindu, in a country where they are 1%, compare this with the treatment of Muslims in India (Gujrat anyone?).
    The Islamic Movements across the world (Justice party in Turkey, Nahda in Tunisia, Justice party in Morrocco, MB of Jordan, Lybia, Egypt, etc.) are the real forces for change and liberation in these countries. Not only are they pushing the tyrannical governments in the same way as the liberation theology movements but they are reinterpreting the texts and shedding oppressive and unneccessary dogma. This is who the West needs to talk to. AlQaeda doesnt want to talk in fact Zawahari was one of the foremost in condemning the MB and even Hamas for what it feels are those groups compromising stances.
    This region doesnt want an imposition of the West, it wants independence and room to dialogue and grow organically amongst itself, there can be cooperation and exchange but not imposition and domination, that will be fought to last drop of blood. There must be respect and understanding but we find none and this is a toxic enviornment of double standards.

  243. Interesting web site. I thought the photo making fun of LGFs was funny. Instead of 1950s America, this photo looks like 2007 Iraq. Just airbrush the poor black man for a photo of whatever poor soul some peace loving Muslims have kidnapped.

  244. I could kick all your muzzie asses with a few goddam Athenian blacksmiths, potters and poofter sculptors.

    Bring your suicide bombers. After they detonate against our Strykers, we can fight in the shade. Be a mite slippery though.

  245. It’s disgusting that you’d link the supposed religious bigotry of people who are scared of being killed in a terrorist attack with the oppression of Blacks and lynchings. It is more typical of the White “liberals” whose boots you lick to make such an unseemly connection.
    Tell me Mr. Lee, what race is Islam? Do you admit that Islam teaches Arab superiority? Is it not your fellow Muslims killing Black Africans and selling Blacks into slavery?
    My family came to America in chains in the 1700’s this is an offense to them and their struggle. When you want to make a point about bigorty, don’t relate it to a true historical outrage, and don’t use this picture which, in another context, you’d be posting to titilate your bloodthirsty Jihadi brethern.
    It is a lucky break for people like yourself that there is in actuality no Hell (just as there is no Allah) or else this disrespectful display, and the disregard you have for those poor Brothers whose death was filmed by the lowest form of life, would be your one way ticket to the lowest regions.

  246. Tater,

    That would show men and boys with hands tied and bullets to the back of the head. Or in the case of the Taliban, the head sawed off with a questionably sharpened table knife while some other ghouls stand around with covered faces chanting about Allah being the greatest.

  247. About those cartoons, I really do have a bomb in my turban. Oh, and the Danes are really funny, laid-back people so cut them some slack, ok? Inshallah.

  248. Sphinx, it’s not our problem if you can’t tell the difference between what the Nazis were and did and what LGF is and what its readers do. It’s a pretty obvious distinction, and if you’re not capable of even that base level of thought, it’s certainly not worth anyone’s time to talk race, culture and politics with you.

  249. Ibn Sabeel
    Why do Muslims in the west want Sharia law. You guys should live under our laws. American law. Why should muslims recive special treatment.
    That’s why most Americans hate muslims. Because you guys complain all the time.
    Leave here if you want sharia!

  250. Sphinx,
    Muslims supported the Nazis.
    Hitler had Muslims units in the Waffen SS and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was in Germany.
    The Nazis and The Muslims were and still are allies.
    What you have now is a Leftists-Islamic-Neo Nazi alliance!

  251. A prosecutor has charged a Jordanian man with murdering his daughter for “honour” after forcing her to undergo an abortion for a pregnancy out of wedlock, the Jordan Times reported on Tuesday.
    The criminal prosecutor charged the 68-year-old suspect with premeditated murder after he shot dead his 26-year-old daughter on Monday “for reasons related to family honour,” the daily said.

    The victim was shot six times in the head and the neck and when police arrived at their home, the suspect “fired several rounds in the air, saying he was celebrating the killing of his daughter,” one official said.

    “I have cleared the family’s name and cleansed my honour,” the official quoted the suspect as saying, the newspaper said.

    According to the report, the victim was allegdly involved with a married man and two weeks ago her family discovered she was pregnant.

    “The family… arranged for her to undergo an abortion and an operation to restore her virginity,” and then locked her up at home before the suspect shot her dead, the source said.

  252. >>One of the commenters at Fitzgerald’s Jihad Watch piece linked to this. It contains excerpts from an amazing article by Martha Gellhorn, written in 1961.

    “I had appreciated and admired individual refugees but realized I had felt no blanket empathy for the Palestinian refugees, and finally I knew why…It is hard to sorrow for those who only sorrow over themselves. It is difficult to pity the pitiless. To wring the heart past all doubt, those who cry aloud for justice must be innocent. They cannot have wished for a victorious rewarding war, blame everyone else for their defeat, and remain guiltless….

    Arabs gorge on hate, they roll in it, they breathe it. Jews top the hate list, but any foreigners are hateful enough. Arabs also hate each other, separately and, en masse. Their politicians change the direction of their hate as they would change their shirts. Their press is vulgarly base with hate-filled cartoons; their reporting describes whatever hate is now uppermost and convenient. Their radio is a long scream of hate, a call to hate. They teach their children hate in school. They must love the taste of hate; it is their daily bread. And what good has it done them?

    There is no future in spending UN money to breed hate. There is no future in nagging or bullying Israel to commit suicide by the admission of a fatal locust swarm of enemies. There is no future in Nasser’s solution, the Holy War against Israel; and we had better make this very clear, very quickly.”

    But for the Nasser reference, it could have been written yesterday.

  253. Boys of the Taliban

    Just recently, the Taliban issued a new set of 30 rules to its fighters.

    Many of the instructions were to be expected: rule No. 25 commands the murder of teachers if a warning and a beating does not dissuade them from teaching. No. 26 outlines the exquisite delicacy of burning schools and destroying anything that aid organizations might undertake — such as the building of a new road, school or clinic. The essence of the other rules are easily left to the imagination, basically involving what militant Islam is about: vile hate, death and destruction.

    But there is a curious rule that the Western media has typically ignored. Rule No. 19 instructs that Taliban fighters must not take young boys without facial hair into their private quarters.

    Right.

    (Cough and clearing of the throat).

    Aside from the question of what is permitted if a young boy does happen to have facial hair, this new Taliban commandment brings light to a taboo pathology that underlies the structures of militant Islam. And it is crucial to deconstruct the meaning of this rule — and the horrid reality that it represents — because it serves as a gateway to understanding the primary causes of Islamic rage and terror.

    Rule No. 19 obviously indicates that the sexual abuse of young boys is a prevalent and institutionalized phenomenon among the Taliban and that, for one reason or another, its widespread practice has become a problem.

    The fact that Taliban militants’ spare time involves sodomizing young boys should by no means be any kind of surprise or eyebrow raiser. That a mass pathology such as this occurs in a culture which demonizes the female and her sexuality — and puts her out of mind and sight — is only to be expected. To be sure, it is a simple given that the religious male fanatic who flies into a violent rage even at the thought of an exposed woman’s ankle will also be, in some other dysfunctional and dark secret compartment of his fractured life, the person who leads some poor helpless young boy into his private chambers.

    The key issue here is that the demented sickness that underlies Rule No. 19 is by no means exclusive to the Taliban; it is a widespread phenomenon throughout Islamic-Arab culture and it lies, among other factors, at the root of that culture’s addiction to rage and its lust for violence, terror and suicide.

    There is a basic and common sense empirical human reality: wherever humans construct and perpetuate an environment in which females and their sexuality are demonized and are pushed into invisibility, homosexual behaviour among men and the sexual abuse of young boys by older men always increases. Islamic-Arab culture serves as a perfect example of this paradigm, seeing that gender apartheid, fear of female sexuality and a vicious misogyny are the structures on which the whole society functions.

    It is no surprise that John Racy, a psychiatrist with much experience in Arab societies, has noted that homosexuality is “extremely common” in many parts of the Arab world. [1] Indeed, even though homosexuality is officially despised in this culture and strictly prohibited and punishable by imprisonment, incarceration and/or death, having sex with boys or effeminate men is actually a social norm. Males serve as available substitutes for unavailable women. The key is this: the male who does the penetrating is not considered to be homosexual or emasculated any more than if he were to have sex with his wife, while the male who is penetrated is emasculated. The boy, however, is not considered to be emasculated since he is not yet considered to be a man. A man who has sex with boys is simply doing what many men (especially unmarried ones) do. [2] And this reality is connected to the fact that, as scholar Bruce Dunne has demonstrated, sex in Islamic-Arab societies is not about mutuality between partners, but about the adult male’s achievement of pleasure through violent domination. [3]

    While secrecy and taboo surround this phenomenon, some courageous Arabs have dared to discuss and expose it. Walid Shoebat, for instance, a former Palestinian terrorist, has openly related the abuse of young boys in Palestinian Muslim society. He himself witnessed a line of shepherd boys waiting for their turn to sodomize a five-year-old boy. [4] Amnesty International has also reported that Afghan warlords routinely sexually victimize young boys and film the orgies. [5] (The sexual abuse of young girls in this environment is also obviously widespread). [6]

    While she was in Afghanistan in 1961, author and scholar Phyllis Chesler saw homosexuals roaming the streets, holding hands in broad daylight and gazing into each other’s eyes. “One of the pair,” she writes, “might sport a flower behind his ear; another might be wearing lipstick or have rouged cheeks.” At the same time, Chesler observed that everyone, including her Arab husband, was in denial about this common social reality, refusing to admit that this widespread behaviour was, in fact, homosexuality. [7]

    In the dysfunctional and morbid paradigms of this culture, the idea of love is, obviously, completely absent from men’s understanding of sexuality. Like the essence of Arab masculinity, it is reduced to a form of prison sex: hurting others with violence. A gigantic rupture inevitably develops between men and women, where no harmony, affection or equality is allowed to exist. [8]

    The sexual confusion, humiliation, and repression that develop in the mindset of many males in this culture are excruciating. And it is no surprise that many of them find the only avenue for personal gratification in the act of sexually abusing young boys and, of course, in humiliating the foreign “enemy,” whose masculinity must be violated at all costs — just as theirs once was.

    Islamist terror, therefore, is, in part, very much a release of the terrorists’ bottled-up sexual rage in connection to sexual frustration and desperation — and to the humiliation connected to feelings of emasculation, which culminates in the act of striking out against “the enemy” and violating his masculinity. The inner workings of this mindset explain why Islamic terrorists consistently engage in sexual mutilation of their victims. Psychiatrist David Gutmann notes this phenomenon in the context of Arab Jew-hatred:

    The Israelis perform in this Arab psychodrama of gender as a potent, destabilizing threat: to begin with, as a people they broke out of the deprecated but tolerated status of Dhimmi – a kind of submissive “woman” – to the “masculine” status of pioneer, rebel, warrior and nation builder. In retaliation, in their wars and Intifadas the Arabs strive to castrate the uppity masculinizing Jew — and this project is carried out quite literally on the battlefield, where the bodies of fallen Jews have been mutilated in the most obscene ways. [9]

    This lust for violence against “the enemy” and the accompanying yearning to die in the process are fuelled by the morbid earthly existence that is engendered by militant Islam. Indeed, there exists very few reasons for males to value their time on earth; their freedom of action and ability to experience joy and pleasure are extremely limited in terms of what is allowed. To be sure, most young men have absolutely no experience in love, sex, affection or friendship with females, and they have no outlet for their libido, which, to further pathologize the mindset, they regard as evil temptation. Killing and dying, therefore, become the only areas where free will can be exercised.

    This lust for death is further compounded by the theological underpinnings of Islam itself, which promises the Muslim male sexual treats in the afterlife which are forbidden to him on earth. Indeed, if a Muslim male dies in the cause of jihad, he will enjoy a blissful union with virgins in paradise (Suras 78:31, 37:40-48, 44:51-55). And for those Muslim warriors for whom women are not of interest, there will be young pre-pubescent boys at their service — and they will be like “scattered pearls” of “perpetual freshness” (Suras 52:24, 56:17, 76:19).

    Thus, for the Taliban fighters who are frustrated with the new obstacles posed by Rule No. 19, there no doubt exists an even greater incentive to get to paradise a little faster.

    In essence, suicide through jihad represents a form of perverted liberty through which an individual can express himself. In so doing, the Islamic radical strikes out at what tempts him, avenges his own emasculation and, through the act of suicide, cleanses himself of his own temptation by ridding himself of his earthly existence.

    Theodore Dalrymple offers a profound analysis of this phenomenon in the context of the Muslim fundamentalist’s agonizing hate and self-hate inside a Western society. Analyzing the motivations of the Pakistani suicide bombers who struck in London in June 2005, he demonstrates that they saw no way out of their confrontation with freedom and modernity except death:

    What more convincing evidence of faith could there be than to die for its sake? How can a person be really attached or attracted to rap music and cricket and Mercedes cars if he is prepared to blow himself up as a means of destroying the society that produces them? Death will be the end of the illicit attachment that he cannot entirely eliminate from his heart. The two forms of jihad, the inner and the outer, the greater and the lesser, thus coalesce in one apocalyptic action. By means of suicide bombing, the bombers overcome moral impurities and religious doubts within themselves and, supposedly, strike an external blow for the propagation of the faith. [10]

    All of these inter-related phenomena serve as windows of understanding for us, through which we become able to grasp the demented and psychopathic psychology that creates the need for a rule such as the Taliban’s No. 19. It is a rule that exposes a fanatic mindset that holds the sight and reality of an unveiled woman to be a horrific nightmare and the greatest sin, yet simultaneously considers the forced rape of a young prepubescent boy to be in the normal swing of things.

    It is on this eerie and putrid plateau that we come to see the factors that spawn the yearning for death and suicide inside militant Islam. Circumscribed in the most vicious and sadistic of ways, the men imprisoned in these cages long to regain a masculinity and humanity that was violently robbed from them as children. In a setting where healing through contact with feminine affection is denied and considered evil, self-extinction through hurting the “enemy” — and the tempter — becomes the only way out.

    Notes:

    [1] David Pryce-Jones, The Closed Circle: An Interpretation of the Arabs (Chicago: Irvin R. Dee, 2002), p.131.

    [2] Bruce Dunne, “Power and Sexuality in the Middle East,” Middle East Report, Spring 1998. For a further discussion on the widespread homosexuality among men in Muslim societies in North Africa and South Asia, and how married men having sex with boys and other men is considered a social norm, and not “homosexual,” see Arno Schmitt and Jehoeda Sofer (eds.), Sexuality and Eroticism Among Males in Muslim Societies (New York: Harrington Park Press, 1992).

    [3] Dunne.

    [4] Chesler, The Death of Feminism, (Macmillan: New York , 2005), p.144.

    [5] Chesler, p.144.

    [6] Author Nawal El Saadawi, gives an account of the horrifying and widespread sexual abuse of young girls in the Muslim-Arab world, a crime for which the perpetrators are exonerated. See Sadawwi, The Hidden Face of Eve: Women in the Arab World, pp.12-24. While it is obvious that this abuse, as with the abuse of young boys, is connected to the unavailability of women for men in the culture at large, Chesler notes that the widespread sexual abuse of female children in the Muslim world “is one of the main ways of traumatizing and shaming girls into obedience and rendering them less capable of rebellion or resistance when they grow up.” (Chesler, p.145)

    [7] Chesler, p.88 and p.144.

    [8] Dunne.

    [9] David Gutmann, “Symposium: Purifying Allah’s Soil,” FrontPageMagazine.com, January 27, 2006.

    [10] Theodore Dalrymple, “The Suicide Bombers Among Us,” City Journal, Autumn 2005.

  254. On October 11, 2000, Yossi Avrahami (left), father to three small children, and Vadim Norvich (right), just married four days earlier, were on their way to their yearly army reserve service, when they were unfortunate enough to take a wrong turn and end up in Palestinian police custody. They were taken to the police headquarters in Ramallah.

    It wasn’t long before the townspeople learned that there were two Israelis in custody, and a bloodthirsty mob quickly formed outside the police station.

    The tragic conclusion was imminent. The mob, led by Palestinian police officers, brutally beat and stabbed to death the two Israelis. The figure on the left is of a Palestinian savage waving his blood-stained hands to the cheering mob below to signal that the deed was done. On the right, we see the lifeless body of one of the Israelis being thrown from the window, where the barbaric mob below proceeded to beat him with their bare hands, sticks, rocks, and even a window frame (click here to see a video of the lynching from the CNN website). Subsequently, he was tied to a car and dragged to the center of the town, where his body was set afire.

    Can human beings behave in this way???

    I’ll have nightmares for the rest of my life By Mark Seager, Sunday Telegraph MARK SEAGER, 29, a British photographer, was working on a pictorial study of Palestinian refugees when he found himself caught up in the horrific lynching of two Israeli army reservists in Ramallah. The only journalist to witness the beating, as he tried to take the photograph that would have made his fortune, the crowd turned on him with such hatred, destroying his camera, that he feared for his own life.

    This is his exclusive, eyewitness account:

    “I had arrived in Ramallah at about 10.30 in the morning and was getting into a taxi on the main road to go to Nablus, where there was to be a funeral that I wanted to film, when all of a sudden there came a big crowd of Palestinians shouting and running down the hill from the police station.

    I got out of the car to see what was happening and saw that they were dragging something behind them. Within moments they were in front of me and, to my horror, I saw that it was a body, a man they were dragging by the feet. The lower part of his body was on fire and the upper part had been shot at, and the head beaten so badly that it was a pulp, like red jelly.

    I thought he was a soldier because I could see the remains of khaki trousers and boots. My God, I thought, they’ve killed this guy. He was dead, he must have been dead, but they were still beating him, madly, kicking his head. They were like animals.

    They were just a few feet in front of me and I could see everything. Instinctively, I reached for my camera. I was composing the picture when I was punched in the face by a Palestinian. Another Palestinian pointed right at me shouting “no picture, no picture!”, while another guy hit me in the face and said “give me your film!”.

    I tried to get the film out but they were all grabbing me and one guy just pulled the camera off me and smashed it to the floor. I knew I had lost the chance to take the photograph that would have made me famous and I had lost my favourite lens that I’d used all over the world, but I didn’t care. I was scared for my life.

    At the same time, the guy that looked like a soldier was being beaten and the crowd was getting angrier and angrier, shouting “Allah akbar” – God is great. They were dragging the dead man around the street like a cat toying with a mouse. It was the most horrible thing that I have ever seen and I have reported from Congo, Kosovo, many bad places. In Kosovo, I saw Serbs beating an Albanian but it wasn’t like this. There was such hatred, such unbelievable hatred and anger distorting their faces.

    The worst thing was that I realised the anger that they were directing at me was the same as that which they’d had toward the soldier before dragging him from the police station and killing him. Somehow I escaped and ran and ran not knowing where I was going. I never saw the other guy they killed, the one they threw out of the window.

    I thought that I’d got to know the Palestinians well. I’ve made six trips this year and had been going to Ramallah every day for the past 16 days. I thought they were kind, hospitable people. I know they are not all like this and I’m a very forgiving person but I’ll never forget this. It was murder of the most barbaric kind. When I think about it, I see that man’s head, all smashed. I know that I’ll have nightmares for the rest of my life.

    That night when I got back to Jerusalem, I found out that I was the only photographer there and people kept asking me if I’d got the picture, then telling me I would have made my name.

    I was so shocked that for the first time I didn’t call my girlfriend who is back home in west London, five months pregnant with our first child. Of course, she was really worried because she’d seen on television what had happened and she knew that I was in Ramallah and then I hadn’t called.

    She was horrified and, when I did speak to her the next day, she asked: “Did you see?” I just said yes, but I couldn’t really talk about it. Afterwards, I heard even worse details like that the policeman’s wife was phoning his mobile to see if he was all right and them telling her that they were killing him. From what I saw, I can believe that.

  255. An Apology to the ROPMA®

    I’m sorry.

    I’m sorry the Crusades didn’t work out better for the Christians.

    I’m sorry America didn’t take care of you in the 19th century.

    I’m sorry we didn’t take care of you after you backed Hitler.

    I’m sorry we didn’t let Israel finish you off when you declared war on their existence.

    I’m sorry we didn’t let Israel rampage after you killed their innocent athletes.

    I’m sorry we didn’t do anything after your filth took over an embassy of the United States.

    I’m sorry we didn’t do anything after your animals hijacked planes, ships, and vehicles.

    I’m sorry we didn’t do anything when you began killing innocents via bombing of planes.

    I’m sorry we didn’t do anything when you began killing Christians in the Balkans.

    I’m sorry we didn’t do anything when you began killing our troops in Somalia.

    I’m sorry we didn’t do anything when you bombed the World Trade Center in 1993.

    I’m sorry we didn’t do anything when you bombed our embassies.

    I’m sorry we didn’t do anything when you bombed our naval vessels.

    I’m sorry we didn’t nuke your asses when you bombed the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

    Of course, I don’t mean the peaceloving, moderate Members of theROPMA®. We know you would never take part in the atrocities committed in your name. So I don’t need to apologize to you.

    Get it now?

  256. Why do some muslims persist with this silly noition of being a “race” or having a “nation”. It’s boring and no one believes you.

    Of course people could be racist about Arabs just like any ethnic group but Arab does not = Muslim. Otherwise how come the largest Muslim in the world is not in the Middle East but Asia? Indonesian extremists might be funded by Saudi Arabia but that doesnt make them either a) Arab or b) members of a nation called islam. You know very well that the Nation of Islam was a political movement and neither a state nor a nation.

    We all know Malcolm X of the NOI was murdered by muslims. As Louis Farrakhan, then known as Louis X, admitted years later, “There was not a Muslim who loved the Honorable Elijah Muhammad that did not want to kill Malcolm.”

    Some muslims are weird the way they play with the language sometimes. Is it done on purpose to deceive or you guys just ignorant of the meanings of the words? Either way it isnt a winning strategy.

    Oh and your picture of lynching? What on earth has that got to do with muslims – have you no heart at all? No conscience? Consider which man wrote the most poignant, most chilling song that ever portrayed this awful practice? A Jewish dude. He wrote ‘Strange Fruit’ to show how he really understood and sympathised with the people who were truly discriminated against and abused in that society long ago. No, not muslims by a long long shot, he was referring to black Americans.

    Grow up muslims, stop your worldwide and hard to believe rhetoric and your persistent silly insults about ‘kafrs’ (like we care, we infidels), and get some much-needed perspective. The moment you start to value forgiveness above revenge and freedom above submission you will really have achieved something as a group in this world.

  257. Awake,

    “Think realistically for a second. If Islam, as it existed historically, and is being applied today, were nothing more than just another live and let live ideology, choosing to ignore the ignorant non-believers, going about your business of spritual growth, would anyone have nothing better to do than to hang around sites like jihadwatch.org? Or better yet, would jihadwatch.org even exist?”

    The problem about this whole thing is that the misconceptions about Islam are far too large, and that the large majority of people hanging around sites like Jihadwatch are simply ignorant of Islam’s true nature. There are enough verses in the Quran proving that Islam is indeed a live-and-let-live ideology.
    These stereotypical verses that people love to quote so much about “Slaying them where you find them” and “fighting” and “killing” are always taken out of context. They are either referring to a very certain historic event (Many of the Quran’s verses were addressing the Muslims at the time of the Prophet, related to some situation), or are simply misunderstood. Because in some of these verses, if you quoted the preceding and following verse as well, you’d get a completely different meaning: ‘Do not fight unless you are attacked. If you are attacked then fight back, but do not overdo it and transgress your limits. If they stop the attack, stop as well and maintain peace.’
    Islam has also set strict guidelines for war conduct: Never harm an unarmed man. Never harm women, children, sick or old people. Never kill an animal, unnecessarily destroy a house, uproot trees, pollute water sources, and so on.

    Now you’ll ask yourself why terrorists don’t follow these guidelines. Quite simple really, they’re simply behaving against Islamic principles.

    But then along come sites like Jihadwatch or LGF, and say that this all comes from Islam itself, and start quoting said misunderstood verses.

    “Think about that a second, if you will. Think about the word jihad and it’s dual meanings as well.”

    It’s good that you know that “Jihad” has dual meanings, because most of the people bashing Islam don’t. The other meaning – which plays a much bigger role in any devout Muslim’s life – simply means an inner struggle to avoid sins and to do what’s right. If you wake up sick one day and decide to go to school nevertheless, you’re doing jihad in order to gain knowledge. If your next mosque is very far away and there are no means of transport to go there, yet you decide to go on foot, then you’re on a “struggle” to worship God (Notice how I said God and not “Allah”, which is the literal Arabic meaning of God, not some obscure moon-God that people keep coming up with here..). If you are tempted to do something which is fun, but then force yourself not to, because it turns out to be against your principles as a Muslim, then you’re fighting against yourself in order to maintain these principles.
    This type of Jihad was labeled “The greater Jihad” by the Prophet.

    If Islam really was the way people think it is on these watchdog sites, I wouldn’t be a Muslim by now. I distance myself from all kinds of violence and terrorism, just as real Islam tells me to. It’s not the fact that Islam itself has a problem, but some people who are Muslims have a problem. A big one. What these watchdog sites only achieve is mixing these two things up.
    What else do you tell anybody who blames Christianity itself for the crusades or the inquisition? Or who blames Judaism for the Zionist war machine? Or who blames alcohol for the car accident and not the driver who was irresponsible, or guns for killing people and not the gun-wielder who shot somebody.. It’s exactly the same.

    I’m not defending a few nutters that got hold of some bombs and are using them against innocent people. But I am defending this religion that has absolutely nothing to do with that. It only makes sense.

    If you want to learn about Islam’s true spirit, watch this movie:
    http://www.amazon.com/Message-30th-Anniversary-Anthony-Quinn/dp/B000AQ6A4E/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5/103-1803527-3947828?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1176276819&sr=8-5

    My point being: By all means, you don’t have to embrace Islam, you I’m not even asking you to like it. Indeed as the Quran puts it: “You have your religion and I have mine.” But if people are going to act all-knowing and informed about it, then they’d better get a clue first, and put the blame where it belongs. Namely to the people who are doing it all wrong, and not the religion in itself.

  258. Great post ! You’re a genius !

    Aren’t you all guys forgetting something ? You forgot the pictures of the beheadings under the auspices of Infidelofobia, all made by the Religion of Peace.

    What is this ? IMHO, this is a racist site advocating the infamous Racism of Lower Expectations…

  259. @ The Sphinx

    That was a well thought out post. Your personal condemnation of violence of any kind is commendable.

    That being said, you fail to address two very basic principles.

    The first being a complete denial that Islam, specifically the Qur’an, contains passages of iontolerance for others, which some unknown number of Muslims deem as direct mandates from Allah, thus a religious duty for the pious Muslim. It is comforting to hear you personally denounce that, but it is problematic that no public condemnation from Islamic scholars is ever heard to support your position. This inexplicable silence is deafening. What are we supposed to think about that? Are we supposed to take any solace in the fact that those who kill while evoking Allah’s name are merely not practicing proper Islam?

    The second being the fact that these passages, taken out of context, as you say, are being used by Muslims against the infidels. When a plane flies down Broadway and slams into an office building, killing innocents, one tends to question the motivation. When one discovers the identities of the 9/11 hijackers, hears the flight tape with the shouts of ‘Allahu Akbar!”, why would a sane person not investigate the possible cause? If these “nutters”, as you refer to them, are debasing the true meaning of Islam, why aren’t they dealt with accordingly? Why hasn’t a single powerful voice in the Islamic world publically undertaken the task of educating Muslims that what they do is wrong and frowned upon in the eyes of Allah? It is not us infidels who need to understand, it is the unknown number of Muslims who can commit violence in the name of Allah at any time, regardless of whether they know are practicing Islam correctly.

    The very idea of the dual meaning of jihad is example enough for the existence of jihadwatch.org. When the Islamic world quickly, publically, and cooperatively denounce terrorist acts purported in the name of Islam, watchdog sites will no longer be necessary.

    The biggest problem I have with Islam’s 7th century text, is that is truly does present an open-ended invitation to justify jihad. If Islam is attacked, insulted, humiliated, et al, it is justified in the text. Like the dual meaning of jihad, there is always a loophole, always an excuse. This occurs on a daily basis throughout the world and as long as it is met with quiet, tacit approval from Islamists, infidels will and should remain wary and, as a by-product, sites like jihadwatch should, and will continue to exist.

    I am extremely wary of Islam, and Islamists. Quite frankly, I believe I am completely justified in that regard and have no moral dilemna that I am not a bigot, even if I am repeatedly called one. My preception will change when I am not simply told, but proven wrong in the areas that I mentioned above.

    Regards.

  260. “Awake,” go back to sleep.

    “Why hasn’t a single powerful voice in the Islamic world publically undertaken the task of educating Muslims that what they do is wrong and frowned upon in the eyes of Allah? It is not us infidels who need to understand, it is the unknown number of Muslims who can commit violence in the name of Allah at any time, regardless of whether they know are practicing Islam correctly.”

    http://godlas.myweb.uga.edu/nineeleven.html

    http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

    http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

    http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm#Statements%20from%20Leading%20American%20Muslim%20Organizations:

    http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm#Expressions%20of%20grief%20and%20sympathy%20in%20the%20Arab%20and%20Muslim%20world:

    but when you live in darkness and only get up from your couch or behind your monitor to buy Robert Spencer and Daniel Pipes, you wouldn’t be aware of the above, would you?

  261. I trust no Muslim I don’t care what he is.

    The fact is that we have to get them out of our country. Those that don’t leave on boats and planes can swim.

    We should have sent the blacks back a long time ago.

  262. It’s quite a sight to see the perpetually hateful decrying manufactured hate in order to advance their own myopic hatred and bias.

    Great job! Blow up any white folk lately?

  263. Umar,

    Karl Marx was the son of a Rabbi. You made a claim which I proved false. There is a real fear and hate that drove the anti-Semites in Europe.

    It is the same fear and hate that drives the people who hate Muslims.

    Reality and facts do not really matter when it comes to hatred and fear. Were the Jews responsible for all of Communism’s ills? No, but it is clear they played a major role in the founding of Communism as a political force, no matter what later Communists came to believe.

    Reality and facts dont mean much for those who hate and fear. The Germans believed that Jews were the foundation, the rock upon which Communism rested. Their campaign against Communism and “International Jewry” were felt to be one in the same. It doesnt matter if it is true or not, this is what they believed, this is what the Holocaust was based on.

    Beliefs, rather than facts, are often the hallmark of a call to mass murder and genocide. Just as the Germans felts that Jews/Communism was a basic and elemental threat to the Germanic people, so do a growing number of Westerners feel that Islamic is a basic and elemental threat to the West.

    So it doesnt matter whether it is based on fact or not, it is the fear and hate, however irrational, that leads to genocide. Millions of non Germans signed up to kill Jews and Slavs because they have the same belief as the Nazis.

    So it is nice and fine for you to sit here and say that the circumstances are different, but I am telling you that in the mind of these anti-Muslims here it is not. They are in, what they feel, is a fight for the very existance of their people and it is very obvious that more than a few of them would be willing to use genocide as a means to an end.

    So if 100 years your grandchildren are sitting here talking about the genocide of Muslims in the same terms that we can talk about the killing of the Jews, dont be surprised.

    The Nazis, like the Islamophobes, feel their very way of life is at stake and they will use any means they can to protect their way of life. Even if the threat itself, the fear and the hate, is based on the same sort of nonsense that the Holocaust was based on.

    The vile, vitriolic hate that you see on this thread Jordan is the exact same thing you would have witnessed at Nurnburg. It should be an educational yet frightening experience for an offspring of Holocaust survivors to witness.

  264. Don’t confuse Islamophobia and criticism. How is it that whenever someone speaks out against reactionaries who rule the Muslim/Arab world with an iron fist, they are attacked with slurs of racism. This picture is disgusting and suggesting that all conservatives are members of the local lynchmob is equally disturbing. Muslims are no more perfect than practitioners of any other dogma. LGF is an opinion news site, everything should be taken with a grain of salt, just like the ‘news’ on this site. Are they racists? Who knows? I check out the site almost everyday and say ‘no’. So instead of trying to shame the opposition through slander and keywords, try creating an argument that challenges others to think.! Christophobes!

  265. The Sphinx
    If Islam is tolerant and peaceful why did they launch wars of agression in the 7th Century Jihad against The Romans and Persians?
    Care to explain?

    Abu Sufiyan,
    Again you avoid the truth, Muslims supported the Nazis. There were Albanian and Bosnian Muslims units in the Waffen SS. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was in Berlin during WW2. The Muslims Brotherhood supported Hitler.
    Mein Kamf is popular in the Islamic world.
    It’s your side that’s like the Nazis!

    “So if 100 years your grandchildren are sitting here talking about the genocide of Muslims in the same terms that we can talk about the killing of the Jews, dont be surprised.”

    You guys would bring it on your selves.
    Americans are sick you people demanding special rights and wanting to live under Sharia. Enjoy your moment in the sun now. Eventually the fury of the American people will be unleashed and we will rid your kind from our lands.
    Kick out the Muslims and bring in the Mexicans!

  266. Abu,

    Come on, equating the Holocost and current conditions? The Holocost was the product of incredibly complex socio-economic conditions in post-WWI Germany. There were no Jewish terrorist cells secretly plotting to attack civilians and invoke terror on a generally defenseless populace. There are Islamic groups that do this everyday! You can excuse it all you want but that is the truth. Very few mainstream voices have fingered all Muslims for terrorism. But even 5% is too many, don’t you think? “Islamophobia” is a hatred and fear of the ‘leaders’ of the Muslim world who pit their populations against the west in hopes of paving the way for a worldwide Islamic Theocracy.

  267. Can any of you name a black run country that is not a shit hole? the countries that were doing something were whites run. when the whites were run out by the natives, the country goes to shit.

    whites could give non-whites (and nigger loving whites) this country and let them come in as they want and we could move to africa (after they left) and within 30 years africa would be a world power. this country would be a shit hole asking for handouts from us.

  268. White Nationalist
    Screw the Aryan Nation too. Yopu guys are allied with the Muslims and Leftists. We’ll exterminate you too. Destroy all your Christian Identity Ca,ps in Idaho.
    Be warned loser!

  269. Awake: “That was a well thought out post. Your personal condemnation of violence of any kind is commendable.”

    Thanks =)

    “That being said, you fail to address two very basic principles.

    The first being a complete denial that Islam, specifically the Qur’an, contains passages of iontolerance for others, which some unknown number of Muslims deem as direct mandates from Allah, thus a religious duty for the pious Muslim. It is comforting to hear you personally denounce that, but it is problematic that no public condemnation from Islamic scholars is ever heard to support your position.”

    Just because you don’t hear public condemnation of this from Islamic scholars in the media doesn’t mean that it’s not there. I’ll give you a few examples: Many clerics who I have talked to have said that suicide bombing is wrong in every way, simply because suicide is a grave sin, and because it targets and hurts the wrong people.

    I’m currently studying in Germany, and there is this local mosque in the area. The head of the mosque, who is the general secretary of the German Islamic Community, is said to be an ex-Muslim Brotherhood member. This will probably set a few alarms off. But this is a man you got to know: Intelligent, charismatic, friendly, tolerant, very open for dialogues and discussions and actively building bridges between the Muslims and Non-Muslims in Germany. His lectures are amazingly insightful and have appealed to practically everybody – Muslim or not – who has attented them. A couple of years back, he wrote an open statement condeming all types of violence and terrorism, and explaining that this is not in the true spirit of Islam. This man, who has worked with highly influental figures like Ahmed von Denffer (German convert and author of many books) said it crystal clear, and yet you will never have heard of that if I hadn’t told you.

    The question is why you would never hear these things in the news. It might sound absurd, but I can’t help thinking that they are prevented from being presented. In fact, this would be pretty bad for the propaganda machine if such statements came from Muslims, because this would damage the illusion of a perpetual and surrounding enemy that is “out to get us all”. It seems that this Anti-Islamic agenda runs very deep in the media, though usually subtly (and not so subtly on sites like Jihadwatch and LGF), and showing condemnations from the Muslim side wouldn’t contribute to this agenda. I daresay in the Cold War you wouldn’t have found any positive images of communists, and in the third reich any positive things about Jews either. Everybody needs a culprit, and this culprit needs to be presented that way in every manner possible. And sensations sell. In the world of Hollywood, action movies and constantly negative news reports, what grabs more attention and achieves higher ratings, a Muslim blowing himself up in an Israeli cafe, or a Muslim cleric in a TV interview saying that this is wrong? And for the records, even if people did watch said interview, many people like the ones we see here would just shrug it off as “Taqiyya” and switch back to Fox News.

    This story is especially interesing. A very influental Muslim scholar from Europe worked a lot to build bridges between Islam and the West, and to promote understanding between both sides by the means of dialogue, much like this other guy I told you about. He was denied entry to the US. Why? Of all people, why was the person who could actually bring the right message through not allowed to spread this? This is exactly the guy you’re looking for, but your Government (I assume you’re American) stopped him.

    I know this might sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, but in the world of active propaganda, and considering what happened in the past, it’s the most rational explanation to such a story, and why positive statements aren’t coming through in the media. So there is no silence. In fact, there is lots of condemnation going around, but it is actively being silenced.

    “The second being the fact that these passages, taken out of context, as you say, are being used by Muslims against the infidels.”

    The fact still stands that these verses are taken out of context and that their message is clear, regardless of how many people misuse them. The whole Muslim world could stray away from the straight path and commit acts against Islamic principles, and it would still be _their_ problem, not the problem of Islam itself. You don’t condemn the law for the acts of criminals now, do you.

    You’re also asking for a single powerful voice in the Islamic world to denounce terrorism and put everything right. Which single voice would that be? There are 1.4 billion Muslims in the world. Many of them follow different doctrines of Islam (Sunnis, different types of Shias, Sufis, etc..). There’s no such thing as an Islamic “Pope” or “Head of all mosques”. Needless to say, all 1.4 billion Muslims don’t share the same ideas. The only way for such a voice to exist is the establishment of a Caliphate to unify them all worldwide, an idea which sparks up horror in the eyes of many people. Not to mention how hard it is nowadays to actually put this idea through. It would be like asking a single powerful voice in the Jewish world (which is 100 times smaller than the Islamic world) to condemn Zionism. Good luck finding that voice.

    Concerning the dual meaning of Jihad, not only is the true meaning not known to many, but the other meaning – as in fighting – is misunderstood. You should never attack anybody who didn’t attack you first. If somebody attacks, do not strike back with disproportionate force. Make peace with whoever makes peace with you, and treat them with respect and dignity. And should the circumstances force you into fighting (i.e. when the US army invaded Iraq), follow the strict rules of warfare that Islam set up. I daresay this is all very acceptable.

    I’m glad that you’re open for debate and discussion. And thanks for your time.

    Cheers.

  270. Ibn Sabeel, fair enough. And it is good to debate with friendly voices like yourself.

    I guess until I see a stable Sharia based society that is in fact successful and humane, I will continue to judge Sharia based on the facts on the ground just as I judge failed socialists societies.

    You must admit, there are some parallels. Every new socialist society claims previous attempts failed due to lack of understanding of “true” Marxism. Not too mention the utopian promises.

    I really think the basics of what a society should look like were outlined by Adam Smith and have improved little since. Economic liberty, personal liberty, religious liberty, balanced budgets and a touch of universal healthcare. Not exactly utopian and there will be the very rich and the unfortinately poor, but if you follow the plan you might end up planting your flag on the moon.

  271. “Again you avoid the truth, Muslims supported the Nazis. There were Albanian and Bosnian Muslims units in the Waffen SS. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was in Berlin during WW2. The Muslims Brotherhood supported Hitler.
    Mein Kamf is popular in the Islamic world.
    It’s your side that’s like the Nazis!”

    The French, Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Danes, Swedes, Dutch Norwegians, Walloons, Flemish and a multitude of others support Hitler and the Nazis. They all had units within the Waffen-SS.

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Why else does the US support the Saudi royal family? Why did the USA support and help install Saddam Hussein?

    The Catholic Church aided and abeted the Nazis. A good chunk of the British Royal Family was pro-German.

    Heck, hundreds of thousands of Americans were members of the pro-Nazi German American Bund.

    Americans sent thousands of Jews back to Europe to be slaughtered. You point?

    The only point you have is on the top of your head. My point is that often large groups of people join together to oppose, in fear and hate, other groups, based on nothing more than fear and hate.

    It is ironic when European people, the most violent people on earth, want to call others violent. 50 million dead in WW2 alone, and you call others violent?

    It would be funny if it wasnt so sad.

  272. @ The Sphinx,

    You wrote:
    “The fact still stands that these verses are taken out of context and that their message is clear, regardless of how many people misuse them. The whole Muslim world could stray away from the straight path and commit acts against Islamic principles, and it would still be _their_ problem, not the problem of Islam itself. You don’t condemn the law for the acts of criminals now, do you.”

    Unfortunately, this reality is not useful to the non-Muslim and will not allay their fears of Islam. To you, a Muslim, acts committed against the principles of Islam are somebody else’s problem. To the infidel, like myself, these acts, while they may be against the true principles of Islam, as you say, are my problem. This fact alone validates the existence of sites that question Islam. Also, your reference to the law was a bit weak in my opinion. There is no analogous correlation. The law says you can not kill another. People are not misinterpreting that, using the “I thought it said you CAN kill another”, defense. These principles are crystal clear with none of the ambiguity found in certain passages of the Qur’an, or the dual meaning of the term jihad.

    Historically, Muhammad was a warrior. His ideology was tailored to fit his needs. There are ample passages which discuss the distribution of booty, with the 1/5th provision for the Prophet himself. Those were Allah’s words. In my estimation, the Prophet falls short of what we Christians would consider a perfect man, and one to be emulated. There is a lot of rules or war in the Qur’an. That fact alone is quite telling.

    It is a very basic principle, the desire for universal human rights, regardless of race or religion. The phenomenon of anti-Muslimism, to which I still do not overtly see or feel in the U.S., is a relatively recent one, with 9/11 being an obvious watershed moment in history.

    Regardless of whether internal condemnation of violent jihad exists, it is essentially invisible, and therefore, quite valueless currently. What we do see however is anti-profiling legislation. We see the likes of CAIR attempting to not only intimidate airline companies, but passengers who dare speak out as well. It is irresponsible to denounce profiling, when nearly every single 9/11 hijacker was Arabic, on the basis that it is humiliating to Arabic looking Muslims. I tend to look at it from the same point of view as you did previously, believing that no matter how many innocent Arabic-looking people pass, they should all be checked for their brethren brought that upon themselves and now it is essentially, “their problem”.

    I can assure you that nearly all peaceful non-Muslims would love to have this dilemna behind us, but alas, it most certainly is not.

    The restoration of the Caliphate is an excellent idea. Once and for all, we infidels would then understand exactly where we stand in the eyes of Islam. I daresay however, that the result will not be as mutually beneficial as hoped for.

    Regards.

  273. Awake, why do you refer to yourself as infidels? The word “Kafir” literally means atheist, a person who rejects the idea of a deity altogether. There’s also “Mushrik” who worships something else besides God (Another deity, an idol, an object, ..). And it’s not our job to deal with those and change that, because it’s God who has the only authority to judge people for their faiths, and award/punish them for it.
    Nevertheless, Christians fall neither under the category of “Kuffar” or “Mushrikeen” (plural forms). Did you know that Islam clearly expresses respect to Jesus Christ and his mother the Virgin Mary, and holds them both very high? Prophet Mohamed described Mary as “The purest of all women”, even more that his own mother. Islam instructs us to believe in Jesus as a God-send to manking (along with Moses, Abraham, Noah, Jakob, and all the other biblical figures). We’re not even asking you to acknowledge Mohamed likewise. If we are really to consider you infidels as Christians, why then are we supposed to acknowledge the Bible as God’s message to mankind, and that Islam is merely built upon the same principles as the other religions before it?

    Prophet Mohamed said: “All the prophets before me are like a man who built a house, and built it well. He decorated and furnished it, but left one brick in the wall missing. People passed by the house and were impressed by its beauty, but were asking ‘What about this missing brick? Why is it missing?’. I am that last brick.”

    So you see, Christianity (and Judaism for that matter) are legitimate religions from an Islamic perspective. Any Muslim who doesn’t think so officially has an uncomplete faith in God (The same God you and I worship).

    Once and for all, that is where you stand in the eyes of Islam. No Caliphate needed to clear that up.

    And about the profiling: It’s irresponsible to single out one group and leave the rest. Because one day, if a blond blue-eyed fellow hijacks a plane, then the airport security people will really feel like jackasses. By singling out people of Middle Eastern appearance, you are driving terrorists to recruit people who are very far off that appearance. Leaving out security altogether is irresponsible, and singling people out is irresponsible as well, not to mention the sour feelings it leaves behind. I can tell this out of experience, as I was questioned 3 times in a row in Heathrow airport in London, once by the passport control, one by immigration officers, and once by the police. Nobody else was questioned, as I was the only Middle Eastern looking person around.

    All I’m asking is for people to stop accusing Islam for the actions of a tiny minority of Muslims. If we wildly assume that there are one million Muslim terrorists in the world (An exaggerated figure, but I’ll go along with it), then they still make up only 0.071% of the Muslim population. FAR below one percent. The odds of dying in a terrorist attack are laughable in comparison to the odds of getting struck by lightning, a statistically proven fact.
    I demonstrated to you that it’s not Islam that drives people towards violence, although it might seem so at first sight. Condemn violent people all you want, but please, just leave my religion alone.

    Regards.

  274. What race are mulsims again? I mean you have attack a race to be racist right?

    I think Islam would benefit from all its followers acting like they belong to the religion of peace instead of acting like they have something else in mind.

  275. The Sphinx asked: “Did you know that Islam clearly expresses respect to Jesus Christ and his mother the Virgin Mary, and holds them both very high?”

    Which makes me wonder why muslims will go out and capture Christian schoolgirls, as they did recently in Indonesia, and cut their heads off as they screamed for mercy?

    Afterward they gloat that children now respect them.

    How do their actions fit with their pious talk? This is not just a tiny problem. Muslims are daily killing their neighbours like this, helpless innocent women and children, by the tens of thousands.

  276. Biker Bob, trying to explain that would be like trying to explain common homicide or rape. You can’t explain it, it’s simply _evil_ . By no means do these people represent Islam, which is what I want everyone to understand.

    This would be like me linking to every single case of murder in America and ask you: “How could Americans be so bloodthirsty and murderous?”
    These madmen represent Islam just as little as your local murderer represents America.

  277. I think that what annoys people about Little Green Footballs is that LGF is continually pointing out the racism of the LEFT, including Islam. Lefties, for example, are always calling Condi Rice some kind of trash nig-nog. They can’t stand to see an intelligent black person accomplishing greatness

    Go to LGF and look at the examples they find of left-wing racists making fools of themselves. Read about how Sudan Arab muslims are killing helpless Africans. See how outraged Democrats are that Condi Rice can play the piano. It’s disgusting how creepy the left and muslims are about intelligent black people.

  278. @ The Sphinx,

    I am well aware of the inclusion of Jesus, Abraham, Mary in the Islamic faith. There are lesser figures, as Christ is considered a lesser prophet comparative to Muhammad, which is odd considering that Islam was pre-dated by both Judaism and Christianity by over 500 years minimally. These points however, are irrelevant.

    If and when the blond-haired, blue-eyed fellow hijacks a plane, whether invoking Allah’s name or not in the process, then adjustments will be made accordingly.

    No one is happy about the need for extra security, I can assure you of that. Unfortunately, I can’t help but think that there are over 3,000 people who would gladly trade places with you, still being able to cherish the life that they still have, completely unconcerned about the “sour feelings” that they were left with.

    If you want to be explicit in stating that those in the overwhelming minority who commit terrorist acts are not directly indicative of those who follow true Islam, removing Islam’s possible influence entirely, and completely severing all reponsibility and concern as someone else’s problem, then at least have the moral decency to accept the terms of those whose problem it is to defend themselves against these Islamic heretics.

    I also do not like to deal in speculative percentages and figures. The fact that the chance of being hit by lightning exceeds the chance of dying in a terrorist attack is also irrelevant. Lightning can’t be reasoned with. Through modern science, adjustments have been made to offset the danger lightning poses to people. People take calculated risks all the time. Being killed in a terrorist attack should not have to be an additional consideration.

    Islamic extremists invoke Allah’s name time and time and time and time again.
    To simply dismiss this as unfounded, with absolutely no possible correlation, nor cause for any concern, not to be discussed or investigated, as possibly motivated to some degree, by Islam, is naive at best.

    As you previously stated, Islam is more than a religious belief. It is an ideology that shapes and encompasses one’s life. I find it hard to believe that people who commit violence in the name of Islam, quoting directly from the Qur’an as a divine mandate, in light of the fact that the words are there in plain sight, are simply misconstrued and only pepetrated by a tiny minority of heretics.

    It is illogical to compare those who invoke the Qur’an as heretical as it is likewise illogical to call those who who do not follow the mandates of Islamic law, those who do not pray as required for example, as pious. Good Muslims who follow the teachings of the Qur’an to the letter will never be convinced that jihad against unbelievers is not true Islam as long as the passages remain, without unambiguous clarification. It is not logical to expect otherwise.

    Regards.

  279. I am well aware of the inclusion of Jesus, Abraham, Mary in the Islamic faith. There are lesser figures, as Christ is considered a lesser prophet comparative to Muhammad, which is odd considering that Islam was pre-dated by both Judaism and Christianity by over 500 years minimally. These points however, are irrelevant.

    “The messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord and so have the believers; each has believed in God, His angels, His scriptures and His messengers. ‘We do not differentiate among His messengers’ and they said ‘we heard and we obeyed; we seek your forgiveness, Our Lord, and unto You is our destiny’.” – Quran 2:285

    “If and when the blond-haired, blue-eyed fellow hijacks a plane, whether invoking Allah’s name or not in the process, then adjustments will be made accordingly.”

    Yes well, by then it’ll be too late for the people who have died at the hands of said blond terrorist. And they’ll be pretty happy that it wasn’t dealt with earlier, I can assure you.

    “If you want to be explicit in stating that those in the overwhelming minority who commit terrorist acts are not directly indicative of those who follow true Islam, removing Islam’s possible influence entirely, and completely severing all reponsibility and concern as someone else’s problem, then at least have the moral decency to accept the terms of those whose problem it is to defend themselves against these Islamic heretics.”

    I said it before: Condemn these people all you want, discuss and investigate all you want, but please _leave Islam out of it_. That is the key point I’m trying to get through. Islam has set the rules in a way that should be acceptable by everybody, regardless of Muslim or Non-Muslim, but some people are actively screwing it up. Who’s fault is it? It’s entirely theirs, not Islam’s.

    “As you previously stated, Islam is more than a religious belief. It is an ideology that shapes and encompasses one’s life. I find it hard to believe that people who commit violence in the name of Islam, quoting directly from the Qur’an as a divine mandate, in light of the fact that the words are there in plain sight, are simply misconstrued and only pepetrated by a tiny minority of heretics.”

    You’ll have to believe it though. The crusaders were also commiting violence in the name of Christianity, quoting directly from the Bible as a divine mandate. Yet they brutally murdered lots of people in their unholy mission. Christianity is a religion of peace though and Jesus would have been shocked. Something doesn’t add up there.
    So yes, as hard as it is to believe that people who claim they’re so religious can be misguided only, it’s the fact and can be proven over and over again.

    “It is illogical to compare those who invoke the Qur’an as heretical as it is likewise illogical to call those who who do not follow the mandates of Islamic law, those who do not pray as required for example, as pious.

    That’s true. But some people invoke the Quran correctly, and some people screw it up. What do you do about people who screw it up? You definitely don’t call them role models for Muslims, do you.

    “Good Muslims who follow the teachings of the Qur’an to the letter will never be convinced that jihad against unbelievers is not true Islam as long as the passages remain, without unambiguous clarification. It is not logical to expect otherwise.”

    Good Muslims who follow the teachings of the Quran to the letter would only go on Jihad against unbelievers IF (and only IF) these unbelievers attacked them first. Which is completely natural. The Quran has said this clearly and explicitly. Also that once the fighting is over, then it’s really _over_. One isn’t to continue fighting. This is mentioned as well. And “God does not forbid you to respect those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely God loves the doers of justice” (Quran – 60:8)

    I’ve told you about the film “The Message”. Please watch it if you can. It’s very insightful.

    Thanks

  280. “Good Muslims who follow the teachings of the Quran to the letter would only go on Jihad against unbelievers IF (and only IF) these unbelievers attacked them first.

    Like when they decalred Jihad against the Romans and Persians?
    Explain that?

  281. It was because the Roman and Persian empires threatened to destroy the Islamic movement and were arming themselves to do so. If you had any idea about history, you’d know that. It was a tactical decision to launch a preemptive strike to stop the escalation. And indeed, the whole thing died down very quickly. But knowing that you are ignorant about these matters..

  282. “It was because the Roman and Persian empires threatened to destroy the Islamic movement and were arming themselves to do so. If you had any idea about history, you’d know that. It was a tactical decision to launch a preemptive strike to stop the escalation. And indeed, the whole thing died down very quickly. But knowing that you are ignorant about these matters..”

    What a lie. As a Muslim you just continue to lie.
    The Romans and Persians had just finish fighting a long war. Both Empires were exhausted and were in no condition for a fight. They had demobilised their armies. The Roman Army that the Muslims defeated at Yramuk in 636 and Qadissiya against the Persians were a shadow of their former selves.
    Again like a Muslim you LIE!
    You whole Dog hating cult is a Lie.
    Your pathetic piece of shit Moon God Allah Lucifer is a Lie.
    You Genocidal Pedophile Prophet is a Liar.
    You are a LIAR!
    You lie even about history!

  283. Stop lying about Muslims being liars, you pathetic racist trash-spewing liar. Saying the same lie a million times doesn’t make it more true. You’re not achieving anything here, other than making people despise your sad arse even more than they already do. Screw you and your lies

  284. @ The Sphinx

    Good, this debate is becoming more focused. “Brief” retorts to some points below.

    Sphinx wrote:
    “Yes well, by then it’ll be too late for the people who have died at the hands of said blond terrorist. And they’ll be pretty happy that it wasn’t dealt with earlier, I can assure you.”

    There was an IF qualifier at the beginning. Besides, blond-haired blue-eyed fellows are not exempt from scrutiny, nor should they be. Just yesterday the guy who tried to hijack the Turkish plane. He wasn’t blond-haired.

    Sphinx wrote:
    “The crusaders were also commiting violence in the name of Christianity, quoting directly from the Bible as a divine mandate. Yet they brutally murdered lots of people in their unholy mission.”

    With all due respect, this is such ancient history and not relevant to the discussion at hand. I am altogether unfamiliar with the passages in the Bible mandating Crusade-like actions, for they do not exist. I also am from the point of view that the Crusades were defensive in nature, but there is no need to get into that debate at the moment. What I do know is that no one is commiting these types of acts today in the name of Christianity, nor is a mandate to do so present in the texts.

    Sphinx wrote:
    “Good Muslims who follow the teachings of the Quran to the letter would only go on Jihad against unbelievers IF (and only IF) these unbelievers attacked them first.”

    OK, now we are getting to the heart of the matter. It is this fact that I believe completely supports my position, and validates Spencer’s site. The problem here is the perception of the individual Muslim as to what qualifies as an attack on their religion, one that justifies the mandate for jihadist warfare. I believe it is this amorphous perception of Islam being attacked, with swords, guns, words, cartoons, financial support, legislation, foreign policy, hollywood, etc…anything that does not directly aid Islam…that can, and more importantly…IS…being manipulated to fit the jihadist du jour’s needs. That is exactly the issue that ties Islam to the problem of terrorism, as perceived by the West. To you, many of these reasons are not valid, but to your brethren, they may be perfectly valid, and this is why there is no collective official condemnation from the Islamic world. This is not an objective, clear-cut, “thou shalt not steal” issue, but rather quite subjective in nature. Jihad is derived from the Qur’an and I believe I have revealed that allowance for it’s application is relatively open-ended.

    Muhammad was a very smart man. He was purposefully vague in his allowances for jihad, vague to be able to adapt to the changing times and the future unknown. I believe it was completely intentional. When Theo Van Gogh was murdered in broad daylight, the act commited in the name of Allah(again), there was outrage by some in the Muslim community, yet there was jubilation in others. Without an official definition on what line, when crossed, exposes one to jihad, “attacks” on Islam being quite insufficient, this will go on and on and on with much more of the same.

    Who is to say who was right in their response to Van Gogh’s murder? Who is the authority? Technically speaking, the Qur’an is still the authority and that authority is still quite dangerous to the non-believer.

    Without a resolution to what I mentioned above, you cannot expect the Spencers of the world to pack up and leave. That is not wishful thinking…merely reality.

    P.S. I will look into “The Message”, thanks for the info.

    Regards.

  285. Aside from the majority of people commenting here who appear to be idiots, there are actually some interesting comments here. Kudos to Sphinx and Awake for actually being able to address one another like civilized human beings.

  286. Awake:

    About the Crusades: “With all due respect, this is such ancient history and not relevant to the discussion at hand. I am altogether unfamiliar with the passages in the Bible mandating Crusade-like actions, for they do not exist. I also am from the point of view that the Crusades were defensive in nature, but there is no need to get into that debate at the moment. What I do know is that no one is commiting these types of acts today in the name of Christianity, nor is a mandate to do so present in the texts.”

    I was not implying that the Bible was fuelling the Crusaders’ actions, but rather that what we see of misuse of the Quran today is a parallel to what happened at the time. The Crusaders had their “substance” they relied upon, including biblical texts. On the other hand, I doubt very much that they were leaning onto the Bible in the correct way, just like violent Muslims who use Quranic verses to justify their actions in a wrong fashion. But anyway..

    “The problem here is the perception of the individual Muslim as to what qualifies as an attack on their religion, one that justifies the mandate for jihadist warfare. I believe it is this amorphous perception of Islam being attacked, with swords, guns, words, cartoons, financial support, legislation, foreign policy, hollywood, etc…anything that does not directly aid Islam…”

    And this is where common sense takes its place. If you are attacked by words, you answer with words. If you are attacked with guns, you shoot back. If you’re attacked by foreign policy, you resolve the matter with diplomacy. If you’re being “attacked” by Hollywood, you can simply boycott Hollywood. You don’t launch a full scale attack on another country because it insulted your government, or kill another person because he smacked you around the head.

    When I said “attacked”, I meant it rather in the physical or armed context. But this here applies for any situation:

    “And if you take your turn, then retaliate with the like of that with which you were afflicted; but if you are patient, it will certainly be best for those who are patient.” (Quran 16-126)

    Meaning that you have the right to return any offense, but it would be better to endure it.

    “To you, many of these reasons are not valid, but to your brethren, they may be perfectly valid, and this is why there is no collective official condemnation from the Islamic world.”

    This problem can be applied to any issue that has a wide-scale effect on the world. Take the Iraq for example. The Bush administration invaded Iraq under the pretext that Saddam had WMDs (something that turned out to be a hoax). For many people, this reason was, as they saw that he could be a threat to world peace, and for others, it wasn’t valid as they said it was none of the US’s business what others are doing, especially when the US itself has WMDs like nobody else. Some people were skeptical about the WMDs thing, but thought it was a good opportunity to secure the US’s interests in the region, and others were strictly against any war and saw no justification to it at all. Where was the collective voice at the time? Right, there was no collective voice. In many aspects, it’s the same situation.
    I’m not trying to enter a debate about the Iraq war, but rather showing you how this is more complicated than we’d wish it would be. Under 1.4 billion people, you will never find a collective and unified voice. At the Danish cartoons issue there were some people throughout the Islamic world who overreacted, many people who were simply pissed off, many people who just grumbled about it, many who didn’t approve of them, but didn’t approve of the overreaction either, many who just shrugged it off, and others who found them simply funny. One Islamic world, so many different voices.

    My conclusion: Of course everything will be perceived subjectively. This applies to every situation under every group of people anywhere. Even crystal clear issues like “Thou shalt not steal” are perceived subjectively sometimes, otherwise there would be no thieves on Earth, who don’t give a rat’s south end about such a commandment.

    In order to understand how Prophet Mohamed has set the guidelines for Muslim’s actions, one needs to know a lot about his life and tradition, and how he handled different situations. The issue of Jihad cannot be summed up into a Quranic verse or two, and any Muslim who doesn’t sport enough knowledge about his own religion (Quite a few of those, sadly) is bound to do something wrong some time. Errarum humanum est after all.

    “Who is to say who was right in their response to Van Gogh’s murder? Who is the authority? Technically speaking, the Qur’an is still the authority and that authority is still quite dangerous to the non-believer.”

    It’s an eternal problem to find that authority amongst humans. Whoever you will appoint to be the representative of that authority, there will always be enough people who disagree with them. Which is a problem of democracy, or any other type of Government mankind has gone through so far.
    As a religious group, people would rather rely on the guidance of a higher, almighty power, who definitely knows better than human beings who are much too error prone. I assume that this notion is present in Christianity as well.

    And the Quran really isn’t dangerous to the non-believer as you think. Sure, everywhere in the Quran you will find warnings to people who reject faith in God or lead a decadent life about what will happen on the Day of Judgement. There still is a vast difference between that, and instructions to us Muslims to take justice into our own hands and start punishing these people, which you will not find anywhere in the Quran. After all, with that firm belief in God and his justice, we should leave it to him to decide who gets punished and who doesn’t. It’s not our job.
    The Quran clearly says: We should make peace with whoever makes peace with us, and treat them with respect. We should never kill anybody who’s under protection. We should never resort to fighting until we are fought against first (in the context of combat). Each to his own beliefs and actions, and God will judge everyone in the end.
    Are these really principles we shouldn’t rely on to guide us?

    And finally, I’m not expecting the Spencers and Johnsons of the world to just disappear. A change of tone would rather be more appropriate, along with a bit of more willingness to engage in open dialogue, rather than senseless bashing.

    Cheers

  287. Wow, so that’s a meeting of LGF suka Umar Lee. My, your sense of humor is so great that we forgot to laugh.

  288. “And finally, I’m not expecting the Spencers and Johnsons of the world to just disappear. A change of tone would rather be more appropriate, along with a bit of more willingness to engage in open dialogue, rather than senseless bashing.”

    It sure would help the dialogue thing if muslims would to stop the beheadings and bombings and murders, dontcha think???

  289. And to the trolling idiot before that: You would be in a position to talk about the Prophet Mohamed if you had the slightest idea about him and his life, but you don’t. You’ve been hoodwinked into believing and repeating the lies of a few idiots who thought themselves to be knowledgeable and historically adept. Newsflash to you Einstein, they weren’t by a long shot.

    “Pagan Moon-God”, what the hell is that anyway?? In just so happens that this God is the same almighty God that has created everything and that Christians and Jews worship, so by your statement, you are a blasphemer and will probably go to hell if you don’t repent. Which suits me fine if you go on like this.

  290. “Yeah well, if I personally knew any muslim who beheads/murders people or sets bombs I’d have told them. Unfortunately, I don’t.”

    What would you have told them?

    Are you claiming that muslims DO NOT cut off heads or murder people or just that you don’t actually “know” any muslims who engage in those popular Jihad activities?

    It must really suck to be a muslim with such violent and bloodthirsty radicals killing people all over the world in the name of your religion…
    Why are most of the active wars around the globe being caused by muslim groups?

    When Buddhist are being slaughtered by muslims,
    you HAVE to admit that there is a problem.
    You really need to do some soul searching!

    Good Luck!

    “YALA, Thailand (AFP) – At least 11 people were wounded by a bomb at a busy market in Thailand’s restive Muslim-majority south Thursday but a second device was defused, police said.

    The attack came as mainly Buddhist Thailand was on high alert against possible terror attacks during the five-day Buddhist New Year holiday, which begins on Friday.

    The bomb, hidden under a market stall, was set off by a mobile phone in Yala, one of three insurgency-hit southern provinces bordering Malaysia, police said.

    Another bomb was discovered at a public phone booth near the market but police defused the device.”

  291. It’s a pity we can’t deal with the Spencers and Winns of this world the way we dealt with Julius Streicher…

  292. Sphinx, I am very glad you have kept your head in this (Jordan and Awake as well). The childish insults were unfortunate, but one has to admit it was a predictable result of the childish display of a 50 year old picture of a lynching. That some sensible discussion managed to surface from the ensuing morass is remarkable.

    I would like to respond to a few things. I do not intend them to be attacks, but advice. It may be that it was not you who originally posted each of these statements (I simply copied them down as I ran across them, for later quotation)

    “As far as who got the worst of it in SE Asia, puhleeze man, this can be argued to the death. Pakistan was created for the very fear that Hindus would massacre Muslims once the Brits left. Still to this day Hindus live in Pakistan and we dont see the cries of suppression under Muslim yoke, just the other day it seems the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court was a Hindu, in a country where they are 1%, compare this with the treatment of Muslims in India (Gujrat anyone?).”

    Why then is there only 1% Hindus in Pakistan? Similarly, when Muslims talk of Palestinian refugees, why is there no acknowledgement that there are millions of Muslims in Israel, living as Israeli citizens while there are next to no Jews in Islamic countries today, a sever reduction from 50 years ago? “In 1945 there were between 758,000 and 866,000 Jews living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,000. In some Arab states, such as Libya which was once around 3 percent Jewish, the Jewish community no longer exists; in other Arab countries, only a few hundred Jews remain.” You may argue they left voluntarily (as did many Arab refugees from Israel), but why would the volunteer to do so after having lived there for centuries? And why would they have done so in percentages staggering in their majority, unlike the Arabs from Israel? The ridiculous anti Jew editorials and comics commonly seen in Muslim lands give on an idea. Just as no boat people try to escape Florida to go to Cuba, and no West Germans tried to climb the Berlin Wall to get to East Germany, we can see where the flow of people tends. Think long and hard about why, and try to find an answer that doesn’t blame the Jews.

    “It is ironic when European people, the most violent people on earth, want to call others violent. 50 million dead in WW2 alone, and you call others violent?”

    The thing is, Europe learned something from World War 2, becoming peaceful to a fault (I say it was a fault since they ignored the situation in Bosnia as long as they could, before the United States put a stop to it, for which no thanks is ever proferred.) Europe today is perhaps the most peaceful place anywhere, ever, aside from unfortunate conflagrations caused by interactions with large numbers of people migrating to Europe from elsewhere. Read http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=31767 for an example of the extreme shunning of violence typical of Germany *right now*, not 50 years ago.

    Speaking of years ago:
    “You’ll have to believe it though. The crusaders were also commiting violence in the name of Christianity, quoting directly from the Bible as a divine mandate. Yet they brutally murdered lots of people in their unholy mission. Christianity is a religion of peace though and Jesus would have been shocked. Something doesn’t add up there.”

    I know you used it as an example of people misusing their religion, but the Crusades come up all the time, used often to justify, or deflect attention from, current atrocities commited in the name of Islam. They happened 800 years ago. If you are going to bring them up, at least do not be surprised and offended if people bring up attacks committed yesterday by so called Muslims.

    If one is to bring up the Crusades, please do so in context, as an example of what deluded people can do, and not to assign blame. It is ancient history.

    Lastly, you go to pains to lay the blame for current atrocities at the feet of deluded people instead of at the feet of Islam. I see where you are coming from, but that doesn’t give you a free pass. The question then becomes how to prevent so many people from being deluded. That is something only you (as in all Muslims) can do. The West cannot help you with this. We can change some of our actions to make Muslims less likely to hate us, but a sea change in the understanding of Islam as it is presented in the Quran can only come from within Islam. Until the Islamic world undertakes this task itself, you cannot blame the West for looking at you as a source of large numbers of misguided people willing to resort to violence in the name of their religion. If Islam is not to blame, convince its professed believers of that, then we’ll talk.

    “Awake, why do you refer to yourself as infidels? The word “Kafir” literally means atheist, a person who rejects the idea of a deity altogether. There’s also “Mushrik” who worships something else besides God (Another deity, an idol, an object, ..)”

    It may be that he refers to himself as an infidel because he is one. Not everyone believes in a higher power. Even if he does, our society is one that demands respect for people even if they are infidels; he may be calling himself Kafir to draw attention to this. Words like Kafir are meaningless to us. We are not satisfied to have you assure us that, as “people of the book,” we are acceptable to you; we want that acceptance to be extended to people regardless of religious belief. As long as there are people you call Kuffar, we will be proud to call ourselves such, in the same way John F. Kennedy was proud to proclaim himself a Berliner.

    Many in the West have lost their belief as a result of the violence that has so often been inherent in religion (the attacks of today and your example of the Crusades show the connection). Many feel that Europe’s current peacable tendencies go hand in hand with their move away from religion. If you do not wish to see a general rejection of your faith by the West (and even among your coreligionists, as we see in limited numbers already), see that something is done about the violence that springs from Islamic lands. The more it continues, the more rational people will unfortunately be convinced that violence is inseparable from religion. As more people conflate the two, resistance to Islam will becomre more forceful. Clean your house, for your own good.

    Thank you for listening, and I can assure you I have been listening to you, though I added my thoughts late in the discussion.

  293. Another thing: you keep complimenting Awake (or is it Jordan?) for knowing the dual meanings of Jihad, thereby implying most Westerners don’t. This is extremely disengenuous. The media here (and school textbooks etc etc) go to great pains to emphasize the peaceful, internal nature of Jihad. If you don’t believe me about that, you greatly lack understanding of our society. The only reason people here know of the secondary, violent meaning of Jihad is because Muslims act it out every day.

  294. Finally, you have done a great deal to convince me that Islam is salvageable. If there are Muslims who believe that Islam and violence against innocents are not compatible (and I know there are many), then there is hope. You argue powerfully that Islam itself is not to blame, that Islam abhors violence and forcible conversion. The problem with this argument is that there are many who disagree with you, people who are also Muslim. Who are you to say your interpretation of Islam is better than theirs? Even assuming if you aren’t simply tailoring your expressions on Islam to sound pleasing to us, why is your interpretation more valid than theirs? Do you find yourself to be a higher authority on Islam than the Imams who call for violence? Is that not a little presumptuous of you? Can you even be sure of your own views? You live among the unbelievers in a foreign land and your views may be clouded by your exposure to the West.

    I don’t mean to insult, you have probably studied a great deal. However I cannot imagine that the proponents and actors of violence have not in may cases done the same. The question remains, why should I believe your interpretation of Islam instead of Bin Laden’s (and the masses who cheer him)?

    This is why, no matter how convincing a case you make that Islam itself is blameless, you will not have an easy time convincing people. There are many people who, through their words and actions, have painted a far different interpretation of Islam than yours, and since they threaten our lives and culture, we cannot ignore it. So as I said before, find a way to clean your house. Convince your coreligionists that your view of Islam is the correct one. Only then can Islam be regarded without fear and distrust. Until then, all you can convince me of is that *you* are reasonable, a conclusion that unfortunately does not automatically carry over to every other Muslim.

    Sorry for the triple post :(

  295. Clifton,

    “Why then is there only 1% Hindus in Pakistan?”

    7 million Hindu’s migrated away from Pakistan and approximately 7 million Muslims migrated away from India. This was called the Partition. Asking such a question does not take into account that Hindu’s were pretty sparse in the areas of Pakistan already, nor does it take into account the very common understanding that the migration was bidirectional and roughly equivalent in numbers.

    The politics of India and Pakistan are well known, they are the result of the modernist nation building tactic of uniting people based off of a faith or a race (e.g. Israel).

    It is the Muslims who chose not to leave India during partition which should be looked at and understood, most of them didn’t believe in the Pakistani state, why is that?

    Regardless, they have suffered through all the atrocities and discrimination which have continued for years now. (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0304/p10s02-comv.html)

    Atrocities at the level of Gujrat which have no equivalent to be found in Pakistan.

    “Until then, all you can convince me of is that *you* are reasonable, a conclusion that unfortunately does not automatically carry over to every other Muslim.”

    This assumption that most of the Muslim population are not anti-violence for the sake of violence is exactly the type of “religionism” or “racism” that we are discussing here.

    A billion Muslims haven’t declared war on you for the sake of being you, only a handful have. The rest of the Muslim world is looking at Western policies with critical eyes (even your own people are doing that now with Iraq), and finding the West wanting.

    Indeed, some will take political actions to let that be known. Some may even riot occasionally because that is the nature of human beings, if they start treating their faith or race as Europeans treat a soccer team, its certainly possible.

    (http://www.yursil.com/blog/2006/12/the-problem-with-fanboys/)

    But to be dishonest and associate the faith, ignore the number of saintly people and Shaykhs who are representing Islam strongly with conviction as against the terrorists, then indeed we have entered into bigotry as we are no longer looking at facts, but feelings.

  296. Hi all, I’d also like to commend the civility of the discussion. I am learning quite a bit about the opinions of others.
    I have a few questions, from the perspective of a Pastafarian infidel:
    – Everyone can go to Rome, but non-Muslims are not permitted to enter the city of Mecca. Why is that?
    – Regarding Jizya. In states ruled by “Islamic law” (I’m guessing sharia), jizya is a per capita tax imposed on able bodied non-Muslim men of “military” age.
    Both of these “policies” are seen as remnants of an Islamic apartheid system, which is despised in the West. At the same time, Muslims in the west complain about being treated as second class citizens.
    Can you rationalise this to a layman?
    Cheers,

  297. Peace Mr. TheKid,

    1) Many sites throughout history have been labelled as sacred and do not permit those without a common understanding of its sacredness (and therefore the proper treatment of themselves and the area) to enter. The Mormon Salt Lake Temple is a modern day example, which only allows members to enter.

    As far as Makkah, one of the largest schools of Islamic law, the Hanafi school, holds that non-Muslims have permission to enter, except when the actual Hajj or Umrah is occuring (ref: Mufti Taqi Usmani). The Saudi’s do not follow that opinion, being Wahabi’s.

    2) Muslims are also charged a yearly tax, the Zakat, but furthermore they are expected, under an Islamic state to be called for military duty and training (like many states today). Non-Muslims are not called for that duty (not called to defend a state based off a contrary religious constitution), yet they enjoy the fruits of the military with border control, protection, etc. So, they pay a slightly higher tax… This is not second class citizenship, but common sense.

    Historically, Christians and Jews were working at high levels within the Ottoman State government.

  298. Mr The kid

    1) Mecca an dMedina are considered pure and only for the faithful. Consider other cities that are open for tourism and all the filth that happens there. Also if i were to enter the States i need to fullfill certain legal requirements such as needing a visa, you therefore need the visa of islamic faith in your heart to enter these cities.

    2) Jizya is a special tax imposed on non-muslim subjects so that tax is levied so that all the capable non-Moslem citizens of the State can contribute, each from his own money, to the general welfare of the State, and that in return for this , they have to be supported, protected, granted a freedom of faith, and treated on a footing of justice.

    You can beleive what you like but any minority in any country today can rightly say they are not being treated fairly despite paying taxes.

  299. paying taxes is a set part of the American state, and the same justification is given in America: ie. you don’t sacrifice your own life to defend America, other soldiers do that on your behalf, so you should sacrifice from your profits to help them.

    I fail to see the injustice inherent in that, although I recognize that several Muslim states have failed to practice that ethically, many early muslims were very careful on that matter, and indeed insisted very strongly on the rights of non-believers, to the point of returning the taxes when they felt that the army would not be able to defend the borders adequately. Would like to see that done, ie payments made to my friends who lost family on 9/11 (yes, I know some people were paid, but not my friends – incidentally Muslim and Bengali, a computer programmer in Marsh and McLennan on the 95th floor of Building 1, didn’t receive the millions that some of the richer inhabitants of that building did) – but we can be easily tired of saying that muslims have also suffered from 9/11.

    I still haven’t heard Awake or others admit that there were thousands of muslim condemnations of terrorism and extremism, both then and since ( http://www.ammanmessage.com ) but that they’re very well ignored by the ‘evul liberal MSM’ in America

  300. I need to comment on the the racist and the hatred that emanates from the likes of the Joker.

    This supposed hispanic is a seriously deluded person and the funny thing about him is he goes on trumpeting the greatness of the so called spanish civilization before islamic times. He needs reminding that the spanish empire lasted a whopping 400 years and even that invloved raping and pillaging south america.

    He also needs reminding that the islamic presence in spain lasted cose to 800 years, now that just puts his great spanish empire in perpective.

    Also he states the Dark Ages was caused by the blockade of trading routes by muslims. Far from it, the root causes of the dark ages was the monopolisition of all resources, be it trade or educational, by the church and the ruling monarchy who chose to leave their subjects in total ignorance. In fact according to Philip K. Hitti, “Arab money was in use in the Christian kingdoms of the north, which for nearly 400 years had no coinage other than Arabic or French”. Also The words ‘risk’, ‘tere’ ‘calibre’ and’magazine’ are of Arabic origin. Magazine is derived from the Arabic word Makhazin meaning stores. The ‘cheque’ has also an Arabic origin. The conception of joint stock companies was an innovation of Muslim brains, brought into practice by the partnership of Muslim and Latin Christian merchants. this tells us that trade was flourishing all across europe despite jokers claim.

    So the joker does really live up to his name and if you’re reading this, try not to pull scarves of girl’s heads as it really makes you look small.

  301. I thought that the Western European Dark Ages were caused because the Roman Empire, under increasing pressure from a Persia revitalized by the Sassanids as well as from strengthening Germanic barbarians, taxed its towns and cities to death. The fact that the Empire ruled purely by force also added to its expenses, as it relied on mercenaries rather than a citizen soldiery.

    (Interestingly the Byzantines did go back to citizen soldiers – in the form of the thematic system – shortly after the Islamic conquests.)

  302. Everyone needs to learn a little tolerance. The past is the past, learn something from it, and move forward. All this religious waring is counter productive. What is religion suppose to do? I believe that any non-fanatical religion tries to teach good morals. If there is actually is a high-power, I highly doubt he or she supports killing in his or her name. But then again I don’t think there is a God.

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