A Sister’s experiences from 1980’s Salafi Movement

A sister wrote this “prequel” and emailed it to me. Masha Allah, my original series on the 1990s Salafi movement made it to all corners of the globe and insha Allah will spark some much needed change. However, the sister basically gives a summary of her experiences with the beginnings of the movement in the 1980s:

This isn’t going to be very eloquent because truth to tell, I am saddened and sickened by the whole subject of salafism/wahabbism.  I came across Brother Umar Lee’s blog a week or so ago and have been hanging out there ever since.  Trying to find the logic in many comments, and when I can’t, trying to point it out.  I should have learned from the past.  In truth, it can’t be done.

I read Br. Umar’s discourse on “The Rise and Fall of the ‘Salafi Dawah’ in the US”.  I think he was spot on in his assessments.  Br. Umar began with the 1990’s, because he’s too young to know what US Islamic life was like back in the 80’s, pre-salafism as a defined group with a name.  But there were groups of brothers exactly like many salafis today, who would help to create, and/or go on to embrace the movement and call it by the name by which it is known today.

This isn’t a pretty picture, but it is the truth.  And in the nearly 25 years since I said my shahada, I am grief-stricken that not much has changed.

When I became acquainted with Islam, I was guided to one of the few masjids in town.  It was, I guess you could say, the largest congregation and the most ethnically diverse.  It was also located in the heart of the universities area, and attracted a variety of Muslims, both immigrant and indigenous, born Muslim and converted, Arab, Asian, African, European and “American”—in those days primarily “African” American.

The long and short of it is this:  This particular masjid was usually only occupied at prayer time, except for a group of young American, convert men who always seemed to be there.  Other members of the congregation were either students or employees, or both.  Not this particular group.  They were neither.  I would come to know most of them as I studied Islam before I said my shahada.  And sadly I would come to learn what a blight they were on the Islamic community.  They were the source of most of the fitnah and destruction of brotherhood/sisterhood among us.

I would first like to say that when one has too much time on his hands, Shaytan uses him as a plaything.  Under the guise of “Islamic education”, this group lounged around the masjid day in and day out.  There wore the pre-salafia dress, favoring long white jalabiyahs and turbans instead of the “highwaters” and kufis preferred nowadays.  They went by the name of the Islamic Propagation League.  It was their mission to bring Islam to the masses in my city, and correct the aqeedah of those already Muslim.  They went out of their way to catch those inquiring about Islam—or new shahadas—hoping to convert them to their own particular brand of Islam.  I guess this was one reason for staying in the masjid all day.  If anyone came or called asking about Islam, these brothers were usually the first to pounce on them.  They provided “dawah” on Islam, emphasizing rejection of all things western as tools of the devil. 

They placed great emphasis on how one was to dress, as western-style clothing was to be abandoned in favor of long robes for the men and full hijab, including niqaab, which they pushed as fard, for the women.  There was precious little talk of tawheed, the pillars of Islam, etc.  The emphasis was on outward appearances, even down to rejecting your birth name and choosing an Arabic one. 

They were my second encounter with Muslims.  My first was a man I had met at a party at the university, a Nigerian student who patiently answered all my questions about Islam once I discovered he was a Muslim.  My only “knowledge” of Islam in those days what that Allah was an idol in the desert and women were oppressed.  Alhamdulilah he set me straight, and guided me to the location of the masjid, and providing me with a number to someone eager to help me whom he described as “part Arab, part European”.  But on my first visit I encountered the Islamic Propagation League, of which this Arab/European kid was a part, and very nearly left Islam before I embraced it.

I’m not sure what the token white guy’s qualifications were to have been known around the masjid as someone schooled enough to give dawah.  I think he just seemed a bit more acceptable as he was white and a fluent English and Arabic speaker.

It came to be known that white converts—and there were many women especially—were a prized commodity to those slackers who lay in the masjid all day.  They tried to snag us at all costs.  Somehow they believed the addition of a white feather in their caps would give their group legitimacy—something it was sorely lacking.  They often complained that the Arab brothers “stole the white women” away.  I don’t know about that, but after listening to dawah lessons from both sides, with the exception of one lecture, I was much more impressed with the Arabs.  Why?  Because they concentrated on those concepts I mentioned above…tawheed, the five pillars, and cardinal beliefs.  They weren’t about damning the West and telling me I needed to get myself into mandatory niqaab and start calling myself Aisha or something.

My first Islamic outfits were sewn by me, long, loose flowing robes and the veils included niqaab.  I thought I was doing the right thing.  It wasn’t until I met other members of the mosque that I learned niqaab was optional.  I thought it was pretty and rather exotic-looking, but I was relieved because my family wasn’t having any part of my conversion to Islam, especially the clothes.  So when I left the house on the way to the masjid, in jeans and a t-shirt, changing into Islamic clothing on the way, I was at least relieved to know that showing my face wasn’t a sin.

During my studies, I was also made privy to the kind of life-style these pre-salafis were leading.  They were all, with the exception of one, married to black women and on the prowl for a second or third wife—preferably a white one.  Their families lived on welfare because it was “haram to work for the kuffar”.  The kuffar would not allow you to wear a turban and jalabayih to work, so you couldn’t work for them, as “Islamic” clothing for men was wajib.  It was not haram however to take charity from the kuffar.  So these families existed on full welfare, which back in those days—before Clinton’s welfare reform—was a bundle.  You could very easily raise a family on cash allotments—which by the way increased with the birth of each new child, food stamps—again increased with each new birth, medical care, WIC and free housing or ridiculously low monthly payments via a section 8 housing allowance.  Most of these brothers lived better than others who had jibs for a living.  They weren’t getting all that help, and struggled to make ends meet.

It was suggested to me that I might like to become the wife of one of these fine brothers.  I politely declined, not just because I was uninterested in living on welfare, but because I couldn’t get with the polygamy aspect, being that not only was it illegal, but I would have to lie and pretend I wasn’t married to my husband.  This is how the welfare department in our city came to call the Muslim women on the welfare role “the Holy Whores” – because they were often dressed in all black and niqaab and having children (as far as the state was concerned) out of wedlock. The second and subsequent wives could not be legally married to their spouse, and the government didn’t give a damn about or recognize a so-called Islamic marriage.  And so the “Holy Whores” were born and  I wasn’t eager to join their ranks. 

My polite refusal was met with scorn.  I was refusing a life with a decent Muslim man just because I thought myself above welfare and being known as a “whore”.  Well, truth to tell, I was.  I think there’s no shame in that.

To make a long story short, I accepted Islam during a Friday evening halaqa for the brothers at the masjid.  My pre-salafi acquaintances were also in attendance.  As was my future husband—a moderate Arab.  Once my future husband asked about marrying me, we were sort of doomed.  The American slackers had lost another white woman to an Arab man—something that apparently happened all too often.  I guess my marriage to him was the straw that broke the camel’s back.  Because from then on, that group had it in for us.

My husband and I became very active in the masjid and in dawah.  I was affiliating myself more with the Arab sector than I was the African-American group—mainly because I saw a better Islam and sensible work/study ethic from the Arabs.  Because I was white, it often fell to me to meet other white women who were interested in Islam.  I would share my own experiences with them while my husband shared the nuts and bolts of Islamic teachings.

I’m not going to get into the specifics of what happened to us – because that would jeopardize my anonymity – but we were put-down, taunted, accused of heinous things at every turn from a small band of these lazy devils masquerading as righteous Muslims.  No matter that the greater Islamic community stood behind us—these pre-salafis were relentless.  They would not let up on us in their quest to make our lives a living hell.  After one particularly horrible incident, we decided to leave the city.  We couldn’t take the pressure any longer.

But I kept in touch with many from my first community, including a few African-American sisters who knew this group, but were not a part of it.  Upon hearing news from home, I was always so glad we had left.  It was a constant string of gossip coming my way—this one had taken a third wife and divorced the other two.  That one had caused a fight in the masjid between Arabs and blacks and the police had to be called.  Another family had been set up in what would eventually morph into a rape charge against a very decent Muslim man and his family who had given shelter to a homeless ex-prostitute sent in as a decoy pretending to be interested in Islam.  The list of atrocities committed by these pre-salafis was endless. 

The funny thing is, in this town there was a totally African-American masjid, but the imam there would have none of their pre-salafi antics or dawah.  He had forbidden them the opportunity to take up residence in his masjid.  He was a decent, working class man who cared very well for his family.  About 20 years later, upon his death, the masjid was taken over by salafis.  What was once one of the oldest and most revered African-American masjids in the country is now a joke.

Over the years, even 20 years later—as self admitted followers of the salafi dawah, some members of the original group, were still making problems.  Their wives still gossiping about people who had lived there ages ago, and trying to break up marriages and families of 20 years duration.  Good deeds, if done by the persons still hated by the salafis, were turned into very near crimes against Islam.  It continues to this day.

What happened to the original group?  Basically they traded in their jalabiyahs and white turbans for highwaters and kufis.  Their beards are down to waists, they reek of jasmine oil and henna, and their women dress like the beloved “black crows” of the Sunnah.  But their hearts seem to be equally black.  Most – if not all – have long since left that city, and formed or joined some infamous large salafi communities on the East Coast.  Many got free trips to study Islam abroad and came back throwing around a few Arabic words in fus-hah and calling themselves “sheikhs”.  Their second generation children are leaving the deen and are losing their own children to the dunya.  They want no part of this extremist cult.

To this day you will find salafis gathered in person or on the internet, still discussing trivia to the point of insanity…Like the ruling regarding a particular sheikh who made a mistake in prayer, or the ruling on a particular community member who committed a sin.  Hours and hours, days, weeks, months, volumes written on one single error—how to deal with it, discuss it, benefit from it, distance from it, ostracize the offender, etc, etc, etc. 

Is this the Islam I envisioned when I took my shahada?  No, and Alhamdulilah by the grace of Allah I never got sucked into it.

So the rise and fall of the salafi movement in the USA is a reality.  It’s probably much worse actually then Brother Umar has indicated.  There is a hadith of the Prophet (saw) that says…What starts on wrong is wrong.  The beginning of the salafi movement in the
USA started with groups of men who were not willing to do their Islamic duties to Allah, themselves or their families, preferring instead to laze around the masjid in the name of “knowledge”.  From my viewpoint, none of that has changed.  The salafi dawah started on wrong, and will remain so.  Unlike Islam—no sects, no labels, no bull—which will flourish and one day glorify hard-working, true believing Muslims, everywhere.

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71 thoughts on “A Sister’s experiences from 1980’s Salafi Movement

  1. Alhamdulillah you stayed a Muslim. I think it is people like you talk about that are the biggest threat to Islam and Dawah today.

    Like Shaw said, “Islam is the greatest religion, but it’s followers are the worst”.

    It is despite Muslims, not because of Muslims, that I came to Islam.

    To a certain degree I agree with Salafee Method. It seems to me that many of these types were exactly the same way before they came to Islam. They just switched the excuse for their bad behavior.

    It was “the man” before Islam, after the Shahada, it was “the kuffar”. Just another reason and excuse to continue their behavior. The multiple marriages (read girlfriends) and multiple children that when they divorced the mother they felt no need to support.

    This stuff is seen by non Muslims, they use it to bash Islam, they laugh at the deen because of it. That isnt a big deal, but how many people have they chased from Islam because of their actions?

    The race issue comes into play. I think there was a reluctance probably to ban them from the mosque because it would have been made into a race issue, whereas they were quickly banned from the African American mosque because the accusation of racism could not be leveled at fellow African Americans.

    Your story, like Umar’s and others is exactly why I have made a choice not to spend too much time around the Muslim community. It isnt healthy for one’s state of mind let alone your deen.

    Thanks for your observations and sorry in advance for the crap that is now more than likely going to be thrown your way by the very same people you talk about.

  2. I agree Salafee Method…

    As I have said before, I know Salafis who are honest and hardworking and I know Salafis who are like what has been described above. I also know Tableeghis who make the most dogmatic Salafi seem modern. It’s an attitude that comes into the religion with a lot of AA converts. Harshness, dogmatism, superficiality, and showing-off are and have always been problems amongst Muslims. But its seems that combined with the baggage that AAs bring into the religion, it’s like throwing gas on a fire.

    I used to Salafi bash and I think that the reason that people focus on Salafis is because of the number of various Salafi websites containing refutations and so on and just exuding an overall arrogant and self-righteous attitude. But again, some of the most frustrating Muslims I have come in contact with were anti-Salafi and followed some other movement. All, were African American however. African Amerricans love labels. Back in Jahiliyah, everyone had to have T-shirts, hats, bumber-stickers, personalized plates, tattoos, emblems, rings, etc. to let everyone know that they were Omega, Alpha, Kappa, F & A Mason, Shriner, Crip, Blood, Gangster Disciple, NOI, AME, CME, COGIC, Eastern Star, etc. etc. etc. Now we enter into Islam, bring that tendency, and find that Islam has MANY labels and cliques to choose from and we become Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali, Shafi’i, Ash’ari, Maturidi, sufi, tijani, qadiri, Salafi, tableeghi, ikhwani, wahhabi, suroori, madhhabi, laa madhhabi, etc. etc.

  3. Masha Allah for such a well written and heartfelt piece.

    I think there is something about Western Muslims that is giving rise to this “nit-picking” form of Islam.

    I know many anti-Salafi madhab following types who are extremely dogmatic and can’t turn around without asking a sheikh first.

    On Sunnipath, people are writing in asking if you can pray behind an imam of a different madhab or worse still, insulting the founders of madhabs.

    It this this sort of dogmatism that is strangling the deen in some places.

  4. That took courage to write. There is a lot wrong with the Muslim community, no matter what ethnic group you are talking about. I am another convert who has to differentiate between Islam (what I read in my beloved books) and Muslims (the horrors of the community) in order to maintain my sanity.

    For those that have the courage and thick skins to speak up and advocate solutions, I salute you and pray that Allah guides your efforts and rewards you.

    May Allah keep the sister safe from the “slings and arrows” that are likely to come her way.

  5. Salaam alaikum,
    Umar thank you for posting this. My ex converted in the mid eighties and he used to tell me about things he saw. He had a lot of critiques of similar things that he saw in the Tablighi jumuah.

    “African Americans love labels.”
    Okay, while I think it is good to critique your own, but dang? AA are not the sole group responsible for labeling and dogmatism. We love to point fingers at a particular group because it is easy. I have seen the similar problems in Sufis, tablighis, salafis, and Muslims who don’t subscribe to any label. They all have their problems. I have seen Arab dogmatists, Pakistani dogmatists, White American dogmatists, shoot even multi-racial dogmatists who don’t subscribe to any particular ethnic category. No one is immune. It takes a lot of courage to speak up and critique “group think.”

  6. I know…I agree. That’s why I said;

    “Harshness, dogmatism, superficiality, and showing-off are and have always been problems amongst Muslims. But its seems that combined with the baggage that AAs bring into the religion, it’s like throwing gas on a fire. ”

    The problems we mention are already there. African-Americans didn’t create them. But I know that with our own particular problems of self-esteem and looking to be a part of something, it creates more of a problem for AA converts. The problems that exist in other cultures are acknowledged. But other cultures at least have a backdrop of family, country, community and an unbroken chain of traditions (not hadeeth traditions) to fall back on. AAs are simply SOL when we fall into extremism, harshness, and dogmatism because we do not have that luxury. When it comes to marriage, we do not have the luxury of community and cultural heritage to facilitate and expand our Islamic-based families the way other cultures do. So if a problem exists for Muslims in general – it cuts extremely deep with converts.

  7. As Salaamu Alaykum,

    I would like to ask that each of us make du’a for all the families struggling through this hardship.

    Instead of merely pointing out the errors why not assist these families? There are two major issues that must be addressed and the standard platitudes will not cut it. If tauheed in its belief within black men is to be sustained generationally then we must instill self-esteem and a work ethic in black males who convert to Islam from the lower economic strata.

    As to the self-esteem issue, in America the masculinity of the black male is always under attack and Islam (Hiphop and Rap in a perverted sense) has served to provided a haven for the bruised masculinity of the black male to extert itself, couple that with a culture of under achivement and missed placed Islamic emphasis by Shaykhs from “clerical class” who’ve never worked or who are not currently fed from the labor of their own hands and this tragedy is the outcome.

    Where is the participation to offer healthy alternatives? How many of us who complain about brothers not working has offered to train a brother in a skill so that he can provide for his family? Better yet who has offered that brother a job?

    Culturally EVERYBODY seeks to belong to (or be part of) something that gives them a sense of self-worth whether it be from some organization or by dent of birth, and this is not exclusive to black males. Ask yourself why are there so many fabricated lines of Shareefian ancestry if a muslim is just a muslim?

    Many of these brother are only seeking a venue to express themselves where someone will actually listen. Sort of like the guys who weren’t quite popular (or couldn’t make the team) in high school so they become cops.

    Once a brother has self-esteem and a work ethic then you can talk about family and community (jammah) and adhering to leadership

    To have brothers talk about how they’ve walk away from the community as if thats a good thing. To me most of it is a cop out just as the many non-muslim blacks who walked away from the inner-cities before.

    So instead of complaining do something positive.

    Ma’a Salaaam

  8. Abu Usamah,

    There are a lot of people (who post on this blog and others) who are involved in actively changing and helping to correct these issues in their own way. Many posts and links have been posted by bloggers with information on ways to donate and participate in various programs that have developed out of these very discussions. Invariably, there always comes the post that complains, “while you all are criticizing XYZ, what are you doing?” and that’s not the point. A discussion does not automatically mean lack of action. Sometimes it takes a discussion for the action to take on a focus.

  9. TheSaveRashadProject,

    I agree with you as I often agree with many of your posts.

    that verily verily line (I think it was you) made me laugh out loud in the office and days later…….

    But I think you are missing my point, though your posts as well as those of others may serve as a catharsis for the writer, for some readers it can create a sense of hopelessness towards the state of black muslim communities.

    just as we need provide alternatives to the youth rather than keep telling they can’t do this or can’t do that. we can’t merely go on lamenting problems with some discussion of solutions.

    That being said do you know of any training programs being offered “by muslims” “for muslims”

  10. TheSaveRashadProject,

    What ideas do you have to strengthen our community and cultivate a Islamic heritage that is sustainable?

    As I see it now many blacks who are actually trying live based on the tradition of the ahlah sunnah wa jammah are in damned if you do damned if don’t. for example when one tries to instill self-esteem to young black males then the accusations of asabiyah come “why can’t you just be muslim” but when these platitudes of the “utopian muslim” absent cultural reality fail then these “bad apples” can no longer be called simply “bad muslims” no now their are “those black Any-city muslims”

    so if in fact it is ok for others to single out a group after they have erred why can’t they single out themselves to create a sustainable culture?

  11. Abu Usamah,

    I don’t know of any specific programs by Muslims designed to train Muslims in vocational skills. Some of the other bloggers may know of something similar in their respective communities. It has to be seen as a priority within the community in order for something organized to happen. Responsibility and hard work must be stressed in the halaqahs and khutbahs. Until it is stressed and emphasized from the Imams and shuyukh, it will not gain much traction. That being said, I’m sure that brother’s and sisters have gone outside the box and tried to organize some things. Some sisters in my city began conducting prep classes for anyone who was interested in going to college or some other post-high school education. But it doesn’t garner much support from the community at large. Some brothers won’t allow their wives to participate. Some are looking desperately to find something haram in it so that they’ll have an excuse not to go. Some sisters can’t even drive themselves to something like this. After having a ton of kids, it’s kind of hard to un-ring a bell. And if it is not made a priority from the minbar, it usually just faulters.

    Personally, I feel that one cannot wait on the ‘community’ to facilitate these types of things. We have to take advantage of the avenues available to us here. There are a ton of vocational schools (on the cheap) popping up to offer courses on everything from medical, technical, legal, mechanical, etc. but we have to get up and GO GET IT. We have to manage the little money we have and spend it as if those classes and that school is a priority. We can’t just sit around and wait on some more masjid sadaqah. I ate Doritos and drank Jungle Juice for dinner trying to pay for college myself – I was single and childless however because no matter what crazy advice was given to me at the time, I knew that marriage at that time was not an option. After the multiple marriages and the several children that’s bound to follow, it’s almost unfair to expect the community to help solve some of these brothers’ situations that they themselves chose. We have to give this advice to those youth who are coming up now so that they do not fall into that form of thinking and living.

  12. Salaam alaikum,
    These are excellent comments. As always, Umar sparks some very thought provoking tangents.

    “After the multiple marriages and the several children that’s bound to follow, it’s almost unfair to expect the community to help solve some of these brothers’ situations that they themselves chose.”
    Yes, it is unfair when someone who needs a hand up is unwilling to do the hard work pull themselves up. It takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice, lost sleep, budgeting, and determination.
    But I believe in second and third, chances. Just because someone has made a bad decision in the past, we can’t damn them forever. We can still do something to help empower people who have made poor decisions in the past.

    It was hard putting myself through school, even being a single woman. But I know women who had two, three, and four children while putting themselves through school. Some have family support, others don’t. But for those who want to improve their condition, we should have something in place to support them.

  13. Hmmm…I really have to comment on one line at the end from the sister.
    ‘Unlike Islam—no sects, no labels, no bull—which will flourish and one day glorify hard-working, true believing Muslims, everywhere. ‘

    You really think so sister. I mean with all that is going on, I am not betting on an Islamic revival anytime soon.
    I just pray that it does not vanish from the face of the earth.
    Tell you what…i have read about all these communities and how screwed up each one is in it’s own way. Howcome i have not come across a single instance of a community actually ‘living’ the islamic way of life. Is such a thing even possible??
    I ask with great fear for I think I know what the answer is to that.

  14. I believe that this is why Abu Usamah brought up cathartic writing vs. practical solutions. We all have issues to vent and yet, I personally see hope for the Muslims – here and all around. These discussions are proof of that. Would this conversation have even taken place 5 years ago (‘Net or in person)? I do not believe so. So I do see gradual (maybe glacial) changes that give me reason to be positive about our future.

  15. Abu Usamah asked, “How many of us who complain about brothers not working has offered to train a brother in a skill so that he can provide for his family? Better yet who has offered that brother a job?” Brother, I have, and I have done the same for the women. I’ll never forget the day one brother came to the masjid, I told him we need a janitor. He looked at me, as if I was nuts. It’s draining to spend time with a person who makes excuse after excuse as to why (s)he can’t do A, B, K, or P! My patience has worn thin with those who SAY they are on welfare because it’s an act of piety and keeps them from mixing with men. I have no patience or energy for those who FEEL the ummah owes them something and should take care of them. Our dress is not an excuse, I worked for several major organizations (even interviewed fully covered).

    As a black woman, I am disgusted at this behavior and cannot make any excuses for it. I still contribute some STRANGE things to Salafis because of the lectures I’ve heard from them – the latest telling sisters they cannot wear lingerie for their husband because it’s imitating the kuffar. And we wonder why our (not all alhumdulilah) men stray – Some of us look a mess inside and outside the home.

    Anyway, on one of my sites, PraizeAllah.com you’ll find a few resources – including FREE online classes which will enable men and women to hone their skills in whatever it is, or learn something new. Job Corps is for youth 16 – 24 and it’s free! These people are skilled in dealing with disadvantaged/hopeless/low esteem men and women. There’s also links to a few legitimate free lance websites (which means, sisters can still stay home and earn money). I work, in my spare time as a VA (virtual assistant), and make just as much doing that, from the comfort of my home, as I do on my outside job. Scholarships are plentiful, as are grants (even when it comes down to starting/funding/expanding a business). As I’ve said numerous times sisters can earn hundreds of dollars each week babysitting (get licensed and you can charge at minimum $125 PER CHILD/PER WEEK!). We have numerous brothers who are single and driving cabs, those who enjoy cooking can cook for them instead of them having to spend the money at McDonald’s and other fast food places. With all the Muslims having children, one would think sisters would jump on the midwife bandwagon. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why one should live on welfare. Leave that money and the zakat for those who are TRULY in need (the one’s it’s designed for).

    Yes, responsibility and hard work must be stressed in the halaqahs and khutbahs, but should have been instilled in folks during their youth. I certainly instill it in my children. Integrity and candor should be a part of our nature. I find it sadly amusing that afro centric blacks who tend to stay in inner cities fare better than black Muslims. Why are we attracting the worse of the worse, so to speak, which have no desire to better themselves? If one were to stop reading these fatawas and read the Quran, then they’d know better to remain in such shameful conditions. Islam stresses education, so for one to frown upon it *SIGH* You know the old saying; you can lead a horse to water…

  16. Good thoughts BintWill. It is amazing how some people think that without education, schooling or experience they should somehow be entitled to some great paying job. It doesnt work that way.

    You dont even have to have the education, although it helps. Here in the Metro DC some 50% of the workforce has at least a Bachelor’s degree, but NOTHING substitutes for drive and ambition.

    But what everyone must remember that you must start somewhere. You dont start out making $30 an hour, it takes time, experience, education and drive to get there and beyond.

  17. Salam alaikoum
    The welfare comments piqued my interest because it is something I hear rather frequently in France…a lot of sisters are on the “RMI” because in France it truly is practically impossible to get a job (outside of janitor work and in home child care) with a headscarf. Mainly because headscarves are illegal in the public sector, and most private sector companies follow suit. Still I think some of the arguments the sister makes hold, even in France…too many sisters in France are just too happy to sit back and collect (even if it is from the kuffar government) rather than do what it takes…babysitting, tutoring…I took off my headscarf to go to work, and it’s so funny…with one hand I get admonished for bowing down to the kuffar (supposedly…audhu billah) but with the other hand expect handouts from my “dunya” salary. I can’t win. What winds up happening in North African families in France (that I have seen in my experience) is one or two of the six or eight kids actually decides to bust it while the others collect welfare, but then the “family” expects the hard working ones to support them. Nobody ever gets ahead. Subhan Allah. It’s sad.

  18. Unlike Umar’s series, I fail to see anything worthy of discussion in this sister’s account. It has nothing to do with salafiyyah and I’m disappointed that it was even posted in the first place.

    Yes, there are many salafis who are uneducated and on welfare, and there are many sufis, tableeghis and ikhwanis as well who are uneducated and on welfare. It is petty and ignorant quite honestly to try and pin lowered social economical status to the spiritual beliefs of a person.

    The ills that the sister encountered in her community in the 80’s had to do completely with the condition (the lack of the right conditions) of the people there. And Allah has stated never will He change the condition of a people until they change that which is in themselves.

    I’m all for a discussion on the educational gap found within the innercities and the effects it has on American Muslims, reverts especially. But the titles need to be left at the door. Salafiyyah is no more responsible for creating nor maintaining the welfare mentality that some Muslims have than jamaatul tableegh or any other group. There’s double the amount of poor and ignorant “saved” Christians in the US than Muslims but you never see Christians pointing their fingers at other sects of Christians for it.

    I also take offense to her mentioning “black crows”, as if all munaqabah are the same, lacking common sense and thinking skills. Those Muslim women in niqab and even those Muslim women without the niqab (and we might as well throw in the non Muslim women too) who marry Muslim men with no jobs, brigades of children in different area codes and longer lists of sexual partners than most porn stars do so for one reason (usually): that’s what there accoustomed to.

    That’s certainly not the condition of all, or even most of us.

  19. My final 2-cents on this topic: I agree with Sr. Musleema… personally I think we have dragged this topic for too long, it has lost its luster and is losing the value that was packaged with Umar’s original series. Next, someone will be discussing the ‘pre-pre-salafi-hippies’, and blaming the drug culture of the 60’s on them!// I say my dear brother Umar, it’s time to move on.

    By the way, some people seem to be having a lot of fun with these topics… here’s one shamelessly entitled “Holy Salafi Whores”… That should remind us how important it is to be cognizant of what we say, how we say it, and finally how it could be misused by the diseased-hearted and the wackos in our midst.

  20. I wrote the article above simply to give background to Brother Umar’s series, as he began with the ’90s, while I knew it from the early 80s and before it’s coming to be called “salafia”. I am also aware the same comments might be applied to “tablighis”, however in the 25 years since, I can not say I have seen this behavior in any other sect, certainly not sufis. I have lived in many many cities in this country, teaching in Islamic schools, knowing communities intimately. One would think that in 25 years, things would change for the better. However, they have not. They only get worse, and I have witnessed this time and again. It seems some are upset that I am blaming this behavior on salafia. Indeed, it may have its roots in the pre or non-Islamic black community, having nothing to do with Islam. It may be carried over. However, I wonder then what makes white brothers and sisters who enter the salafi sect adopt the same habits of the African Americans? Or Arabs, Pakistanis or any other race or nationality of Muslim who adopts the salafi dawah? Rejecting all that has anything to do with their former lifestyles and choosing instead to adopt the quarter century old practices such as rejection of all things western, reliance on welfare, multiple (illegal polygamous) marriages, etc? Surely this can not be blamed on African American habits. Thus one can only conclude that there is something wrong with the salafi method itself. In addition, the very fact that salafis label themselves as such, seperating themselves from simple Islam using terms such as minhaj, upon the dawah, etc, indicates a self-induced departure from mainstream Islam. If salafis do not wish to be labeled, then they should not have done so to themselves from the beginning. I am well aware that there are Muslims who misbehave, yet do not adhere to the salafi dawah. However, as a label, salafia has produced a huge wave of adherants who use it to behave in a certain collective manner. And it is this manner that has come to be known as salafia. I dont believe the two can be seperated.

  21. Sister Musleeema: Given your own accounts of salafism you made on your own blog, I am surprised you would take issue with my article. There doesnt seem to be a whole lot of difference between our opinions, at least from what I read on your blog.

    Brother Amad: When someone tells the truth of their experiences with a particular subject–and the dangers therein–why do you think “That should remind us how important it is to be cognizant of what we say, how we say it, and finally how it could be misused by the diseased-hearted and the wackos in our midst.”? Would you suggest people keep silent, allowing problems to multiply while being swept under the rug, just because someone whom you think is
    “diseased-hearted” or “wacko” has another take on it? That sounds like copping out to me. Further, I dont see one thing wrong with what Br. Ali wrote on his blog. Why do you object?

  22. “Evolutionary”: Please don’t patronize us. Go read the 200+ comments on the previous series… obviously you have NOT, otherwise you wouldn’t make your sweeping generalizations. This is indeed the problem of anonymous, seemingly agenda-driven stereotyping; it is also unfortunate that it has been allowed front-page press.

    Please keep on hating. Alhamdulillah, many of us have moved on… salafi, traditionalist, whatever label you wish to ascribe. Inshallah, I am done with this topic. May Allah guide us all and keep us firm on the straight path.

  23. “Would you suggest people keep silent, allowing problems to multiply while being swept under the rug, just because someone whom you think is
    “diseased-hearted” or “wacko” has another take on it? That sounds like copping out to me”

    Very well stated Evo. Couldn’t agree more :) And I think people have issues with Eteraz’s forum because he’s too “progressive” LOL

  24. Umar and other brothers spend so much time talking about the movement, I believe, because it’s had such a negative effect on so many. Brothers go into jail, adopt this philosophy, and have no practical outlook on life. Instead of planning for when they get out, they waste time talking about whether the Qur’an is the word of Allah or created, where to put their hands in salat, and if a non-Muslim can give the athan. If you’re planning to become a scholar, being educated about those issues is important. However when you cannot pay back $5 when it is loaned to you, look for a way to get on SSI instead of a job, and talk about “trying to find a zawaj” when your primary source of income consists of oils and t-shirts, you have other educational priorities. That’s the real issue here.

    If you’ve been Muslim for more than 6 months and still need to constantly talk about ‘aqeedah’ you might have a learning disability. Instead of talking to brothers about being honest, being respectful to their women, keeping good companions, or keeping a job for more than a week, it’s all about ‘aqeedah.’ And that’s the primary reason more than half of them end up back in jail soon after release.

    It’s irritating because many of us know that one of the reasons African-American Muslims accepted Islam was due to its focus on education, responsibility, and leadership who made it a point to emphasis these things. Why do you need to ask for a fatwa from a sheikh overseas on whether or not it’s permissible to sell drugs? Why do you need to even ask for a fatwa at all? Don’t you have any common sense?

    It’s frustrating because we see potential that could be molded into something positive wasted on bickering about whether Imam so and so is really on the ‘minhaaj.’ Sometimes I feel like all of this was planned just to keep groups of enthusiastic, young, new converts in darkness.

    And let me say, if I lost my job today and I needed money, you’d see me putting in an application at Wendys, McDonalds, Wal-Mart or any other place that would hire me far before I’d be at the masjid asking for sadaqah. The same brothers who say you’re aqeedah is bad, and you’re deviant, ikhwani, qutubi will never hesitate to ask you for a loan though, all the while giving you a hug and calling you brother.

    Sorry, I had to vent.

  25. Amad–I did read the series and comments–that’s why I wrote this “prequel”. And I have no idea what you mean by patronizing you. Nor am I “hating”–I am discussing points which hundreds–if not thousands–have brought to light before me–and will after me. But I am glad you are done with this topic, because you didnt answer my questions in the first place and I dont expect you can. And in the end, it’s not important anyway. I stand by what I wrote and that’s it for me.

  26. The evoluntionary, if it is your understanding that what Muslims in the ghettos of Pittsburgh (or any other community, rich or poor) were doing in the ’80’s was a prequel to “salafism” than you most likely misread my blog.

    I shared my account for the purpose of clarifying the gross exploitation and manipulation of the dawah by certain people (brothers and as well as some sisters, some who do suffer from the things you mentioned ) that tore apart communities and fostered the cultist behaviors that are seen today. My blog was not to disparage the minhaaj of the salaf. I very much believe that the two (issues with the people and the differences of opinion within Islam) are separate.

    Although, I can believe some of those same brothers and sisters that you spoke of did later embrace ad dawatus salafiyyah, but the fact remains that everything your blog focused on; unemployment, laziness, clique mentality, welfare abuse, the exaggerated fondness of white women and promiscuity under the guise of polygyny are not religious problems. Neither are they ethnic specific (although in the states it is made to appear that it only affects minorities), those types of problems are directly linked to a people’s condition or lack thereof as well as their lower desires.

    The prophet (saaws) said the man is on the religion of his close friend. Very simply, people are bound to emulate those whom they love and that is why even those who are educated can get caught within any cultist type hizb today whether it is the pseudo salafis, tradionalist, sufis ikhwanis or what have you, and sooner or later they will conform.

    Your blog was about uneducated Muslims suffering from a host of other problems that comes with being ignorant, not salafiyyah.

    And I agree completely with Amad that now it seems that Muslims on the net are running out throwing rocks at anything and everything “appearing” salafi without any real purpose. I don’t mind reading accounts, but if your only purpose for writing is to belittle and gain ground against other Muslims you have differences with, it should be checked.

  27. Sister Musleema: Assuming I followed your reasoning and accepted that the salafi dawah was not the reason for certain behaviors, I would have to at least point out that the dawah seems to easily encourage and perpetuate the original behavior, because many of those who follow it continue this behavior decade after decade. At the least, it is not a cure for humankind’s ills, as I believe pure Islam is. To that end, the dawah has failed miserably.

    Further, why do you state the following: “any cultist type hizb today whether it is the pseudo salafis, tradionalist, sufis ikhwanis or what have you”? If you consider traditionalist Muslims and possibly Ikhwan and all sufis as part of a cultish hizb, then I assume not only are you are talking about mainstream Islam (because that is what they practice), but further in leaving out the salafi dawah, you must then consider it the only proper or accepted form of Islam. I do not believe true believers in Islam label themselves as any thing other than Muslims. Further, I do not know the difference between pseudo-salafis and salafis, and I am sure many would argue there is no such thing. One who calls himself a salafi must be a salafi, at least in his/her own mind. And then, who is to judge whether said person is a member of the club or not? This continues to illustrate the reason why sects are forbidden in Islam. If you must clarify yourself as anything further than simply a Muslim (or Muslimah) by going a step further with terms such as a follower of the salafi dawah, upon the dawah, minhaj, etc, then it is clear that simple Islam is not acceptable to you. Frankly I find it despicable–and the work of Shaytan–that Muslims have divided themselves with these labels.

  28. Discussion about the plight of the Muslims is great! Trying to provide and promote solutions is even greater, but what is happening in the Muslim world, whether it be in the various Masajid, through blog or any other arena of communication, is the DIVISION of the hearts. Nothing or at least not much will get accross if the hearts are heading in different directions. And one of the main reasons for this is the labels.

    Many points that were made were “contextual” valid points. Meaning they are very applicable in some context while maybe not so much in another. But there are general truths in them that none can “Sincerely” deny. BUT, if that “truth” come from someone that does not agree, or affiliate or support and advocate “MY” group then I can’t agree with them even if it’s true. The question is what ever happened to the “Muslim” identity? Not the “group inside” Islam. You can read one blog from a person making a “contextual” critique about one group, and automatically, one member from that criticized group has to respond and defend the honor of the group. How long will this cycle go on? We are all Muslims, and despite our leanings in favor of one method over another we have to become bigger people. The non-Muslims are attacking Islam, salndering our Beloved Messenger, destroying our respected historical sites, making laws to make it difficult to cope in these societies, and they are not pin-pointing any particular group, all the Muslims are affected by it. For you Brothers and Sisters in Europe, the law against Muslim Womem working in their Islamic Dress and covering, who is affected by that, only the Ikhwanees, only the Salafis, only the Sufis, and on like that? No ALL of the Muslim Women are affected by it. But What are we going to do about it? Continue to point the finger at the other. Going to demonize a Sister if she stopped covering 100%, so that she can take care of her family. When does it stop? I learned a principle from a teacher of mine some time ago, he said that the time we are living in, with Islam under attack, “This is a time we should be defending the house (Of Islam), and not so foolishly arguing about cleaning the house (of Islam), but if we don’t defend it from the outside attacks, then when it is all said and done, there will be nothing to clean any way.” I hope the point is well taken and some have gained some benefit from it. I just would like to see a serious shift in our focus and approach to the current situation that WE Muslims face in the western societies, and I know for sure the claim to a particular group and fighting other Muslims who are not in line with you about what you call yourself or whatever, seems to prove that we are not truly understanding what this is all about.

    Ma-Salaam

  29. The sister stated in her post that:
    “I was affiliating myself more with the Arab sector than I was the African-American group—mainly because I saw a better Islam and sensible work/study ethic from the Arabs. ”

    There are a number of issues to apend to this:
    1. This is merely the sister’s own view, and in all honesty a rather bias one at that!?
    2. It is based on blatant stereotypes and I know for a fact that African-American Muslims have a strong work and study ethic. To make such a reductionist statement wherein complex situations are referred back to ethnic backgrounds in foolhardy to say the least.
    3. It has to emphasised that this cannot be taken to be universal and the same situation across the board.
    4. Within the sister’s post she totally exonerated any blame with those who she described as “having a work/study ethic” and failed to critically assess if this is actually the full case. In the UK for example, this is not the full case.
    5. It is unfortunate that despite embracing Islaam some quite disturbing racial stereotypes have still been maintained which comes over very strongly in the sister’s comments.
    6. I also find it odd how the sister in the post utterly disregarded the African-American contributions and more or less made out that it was non-existent or at least reflected in “slackers”, “extremists”, “prowling for second wives”, “welfare recipients”, “black hearts”, “a joke”, “lazy devils masquerading as righteous Muslims” (!!) and a vast array of references which are inappropriate to say the least.
    Therefore, I think that the emotive remarks within the sister’s observations are tainted by her own personal experiences, yet she is incorrect to ascribe a racial dimension to this, let alone oddly attribute such an experience to Salafiyyah!

    As for ‘The Evolutionary’ then terms such as ‘manhaj; are totally affirmed in the texts of the early scholars and merely means ‘method’ or ‘methodology’. As a result, the simplistic analysis of ‘The Evolutionary’ is wanting.

    Importantly though, leaving a path due to disillusionment etc. is not indicative of the methodology, let alone an entire people, it’s an indication of personal characteristics.

    AbdulHaq ibn Kofi ibn Kwesi al-Ashanti

  30. Im speaking for myself and alot of sisters i know, when i say once you have been in the position of experiencing how super salafis treat women and their general social problems it really is difficult to look beyond this. Mainly due to the fact that the issues the sister mentioned ; unemployment, laziness, wife abuse and promiscuity in the guise of polygamy is rampant in this community and more importantnly occurs at every level its very much a top down problem, the self appointed leaders in the UK being the worst from what i have seen. So the problem then occurs if the big wigs are at it- who then is gonna give naseeha to the super salafi masses.

    This long overdue critique of salafism and/or its followers has really hit a nerve to warrant a reply from one the salafi big-wig. If i am not mistaken, i hope there are some sincere super salafees out their if so please take heed of the advice given and dont just go into defence mode…..listen and help to make a change in your community take some responsibility, for far too long there has been no sense of accountability, with the general super salafee masses blind-following or more to the point the men ( lets face it in salafee world its all about the men) enjoying the perk’s…..

  31. For AbdulHaq al-Ashanti, who said: “Importantly though, leaving a path due to disillusionment etc. is not indicative of the methodology, let alone an entire people, it’s an indication of personal characteristics.”

    I might agree with this statement if it werent for the fact that a HUGE majority of salafis exhibit the characteristics I mentioned. How can so many who belong to one group be so off the Islamic track? I simply dont buy the excuses. I believe something is seriously wrong with the methodology.

  32. Dear Muslims, Brothers and Sisters. Are we really looking to follow and defend the Truth, as we understand it to be; The Deen of Islaam, or are we looking to defend our group, even at the cost of causing division and animosity amongst and throughout the Ummah? If we had the Fadl of ALLAH to be blessed with greatness, like the Messenger of ALLAH (S) or his companions (R) or the Salaf, do you honestly think that such “dog chasing his tail” discourse would be the way it is now? THE DEEN IS NOT SOME NARROW UNDERSTANDING AND INTERPRETATION OF ONE SHAIKH OR ANOTHER! And it doesn’t matter who that Shaikh is. There have been over 1200 years or great scholarship in this Ummah since the demise of the Salaf (The First Three Generations) and if one would only study this scholastic tradition, they would find that there is much more than what we have learned in reading ‘a’ book or two, or several books by only an author or two. The horizon is not limited to only what one can see with their limited sight, but it extends far beyond that. When we stop thinking that every Muslim “MUST” conform to our particular understanding, or be down with our particular group and adhere to our particular manhaj (methodology), then relationships and pathways of healthy communication will not only open up, but become means of benefit and assistance to helping the wanting plight of the Muslims worldwide.

    Dear Ummah, great Scholars of the Salaf had their differences, and indeed they were astute, well respected rightly guided Scholars, but they still worked with each other in the betterment of the Ummah. Here we are, ignorant laymen, who have not even a toenail of knowledge of what those great ledgends had and we can’t seem to get out of our own way. This clearly shows that we are not working for the Deen, we obviously have other motives that are in place.

    It one is Salafi, Masha-ALLAH, be an upright true Muslim, and let it be felt by the surrounding Muslims and non-Muslims. It One is an Ikhwanee, then be an upright true Muslim, and the same goes for one who may be a Sufi, or a Tablighee or whatever one feels comfortable with. No this don’t mean compromise the Deen and accept and act upon what is not from the Deen, because this can never be accepted, but if one feels the need to call themselves with labels that identifies them with a particular group, then that is your perogative, but at the end of the day, how does your Islaam add up to what you are preaching? This is what it is about! Let your Islaam be your proof for whatever is your claim, and if your Islaam is nothing to be credited for, then how can one truly give any credit to your claim? The Prophet Muhammad (S) said: “The Burden of proof is upon the one making the claim” So, if your want to lay claim to something, then provide your proof, and the proof is in the character!

    I pray that some benefit has been received and with ALLAH is the refuge!

    Ma-Salaam

  33. The Evolutionary said, ” How can so many who belong to one group be so off the Islamic track? I simply dont buy the excuses. I believe something is seriously wrong with the methodology.”

    I personally believe that the methodology of the real dawatus salafiyyah is correct. I think that some people who claim to follow it have misrepresented it and made it look bad in the eyes of others (same as with Muslims and Islam in general). Islam has always been more attractive to the down and out so it does not surprise me to see that the people who are attracted to the strict adherance to the Quran and Sunnah that The Dawatus Salafiyyah calls to, would be people that you see as [insert the many adjectives that you have previously used].

    Let’s face it. The more successful you are in this dunyah the less likely you will be attracted to Islam and for the Muslim the same applies. The more educated and successful duyah wise Muslims who choose to strictly adhere to the Quran and Sunnah are few. Everyone knew that during the Prophets time the slaves and other lower status people were sooner to accept Islam because they had the least to lose and the most to gain. Same applies to us. And this also explains the ‘wierd white convert’. Often times the Muslim world gets excited over a white convert, because to them this validates their faith and makes them think if a white person accepts it we must be right. little do they know that many of the white converts are from the misfits and outcast of their society (with the exception of the few white women who converted after meting a Muslim man and if she was fat and ugly well you can include her in that too). So if we use your same reasoning, should we conclude that something must be seriously wrong with Islam because it keeps attracting these weirdo white converts?

  34. Umm Adam – I’m very saddened by your stereotyping of white converts. These are your brothers and sisters in Islam. Maybe you are writing this, because you are hurt by the original post, but that is no excuse for such nasty slurs.

    Yes, it is embarrassing the fuss that is sometimes made over a white face, but that does not justify declaring white converts as mostly “outcasts from society”, or your body facism in stating that a fat and ugly woman is also a misfit in society.

    You have also made the inference that a women who converts via marriage (by the way I have known many men to do this too) , is some how not as good a Muslim. Why is this and are you the person to judge them?

    Really, are you happy writing such hateful things?

    Alhamdulilah, I have met converts from all backgrounds and ethnicities (and body shapes). I would not consider one of them an outcast from society.

    Rather, I just think it is wonder of Allah swt, that the light of His religion attracts so many different people.

    This proves that it is the message for all people, of all times, which is what we should all remember.

  35. Um Adam: I really cant refute your last comment because I dont completely understand it–it seems to be what comes first–the chicken or the egg–kind of thing. And pure Islam attracts many sucessful, normal people–hardly just outcasts. Let’s just run with it and say for every 1 “fat, white woman” pure Islam attracts, salafia seems to attract a hundred slackers. Worse, if the dawah was correct, it would cure, not further, the behaviors we have discussed. But it seems to be a breeding ground for all the ills mentioned. I have been too close to it and witnessed too many wrongs to believe there is anything good in it. Conditions have not improved in 25 years–they have only worsened, especially since generations of children have been born into it and been no more successful than there parents in climbing up out of the pit of wefare, polygamy, etc. The proof is in the pudding.

  36. Hmm Safia, you misunderstood my point. I’m married to a white convert and my kids ‘pass’ for white, so reread my post with that in mind.

    Also, nothing I said was false. Islam does attract wierd white people and it is easier for a misfir to accept Islam than a trendy popular. I never put down women who married Muslim men then accepteed islam, I excluded them from thew weird white convert category, thus elevating their status…lol. The fat and ugly comment was not an insult to fat and ugly women, it was saying how fat and ugly women are basically rejects of society, just stating facts not condoning it. Anyway, the point was that the Evolutionary can no more fault Salafia for attracting black slackers than we can fault Islam for attracting weirdos, needy, slaves, or any other lower status person for accepting. However, Islam should change the condition of the person, as it should improvbe ones character.

  37. And for the record, my bestest and closest friends are white converts and they aren’t weird (but my husband is). Heck, I haven’t had a close black friend in over 5 years…lol

    So not hatred here and you will never find a single Muslim on the face of this earth to ever say they were mistreated by me for being any race or color or fat and ugly ( I would challenge you to find one to say they were ever ill treated by me in anyway, but then you may find one who met me on the internet and misunderstood me or I may have not worded something right and offended them, but the real life me you won’t find one, insha’Allah),

  38. Salaam ‘Alaikum

    //Islam does attract wierd white people and it is easier for a misfir to accept Islam than a trendy popular. I never put down women who married Muslim men then accepteed islam, I excluded them from thew weird white convert category, thus elevating their status…lol.//

    Well, as long as “your best friends are,” go on insulting and offending in the name of the diyn, O my sister.

  39. OK I first want to start off by saying I’m a salafi myself. and i just want to say the salafis that the sister was around were clearly extremist in what they are doing. both of my parents follow the salafi manhaj. and my father didn’t have us living on welfare. my father even worked for the state. and secondly . me and mother both wear the niqab but we don’t think its obligatory.
    and I’m applaud by the way this woman refers to women who wear black niqabs and abaya as “black crows”.and for her to say the second generation is going to the dunya. well that is just (excuse my french) BS. im second generation and im not in the dunya
    i also want to point out the masjid i go to.in the last 3 or 4 years or so. i have seen more and more white muslims attending the masjid (which follows the salafi manhaj).
    i also like to point out the salafi only follow what the the quran and sunnah says.it is only the other Muslims who gave us this label of “salafi”. salafi is just pure islam.it was the other Muslims. who broke up into sects.
    lastly this woman who wrote this trash is basically calling these men lazy and bums.and its not true. there are many salafi men who have jobs and hard working

    may Allah guide this sister.ameen!

  40. P.S i just want to say that skin color has nothing to do with this woman’s views on the salafi manhaj.i have met more black who have a jack up views on salafis that white muslims. so i don’t think people should make this an issue of race. because being ignorant doesn’t have a skin color.

  41. Assalamoe aleikum,

    It is not solely African Americans who are working havoc in the Islam by this means, in Holland there are men from Egypt who are even worse. And indeed the destruction within the Islamic community is a battlefield. And they all, women alike, will not tolerate any critisism. They refuse to clean up their own mess and focuss on the west. They isolate themselves in their homes and in their meetings. If you disagree with them they declare you a disbeliever. I believe that there can never be isued enough warning against this group, especially for the newly converts.

  42. Asalamuwalaykum
    The original problems were caused by a lack of knowledge, education and cultivation.
    Therefore if we do not wish to see a repeat of the problems we need to seek knowledge and taqwah.

    As a sister reminded us above, Allah doesnt change the condition of a people until they change themselves.

    Yes, in addition to taking the islamic means for rectification we should also use the permisible wordly means at our disposal, as this was the method of the salaf asaaliheen.

    We had problem in the UK (United Kingdom) for a few years when the ikhwaanies came in to the ranks of salafies and gradually introduced their innovations and principles in contrast to the way of Muhaamed salalaho alahi wasalam. Obviously when the Senior shaykhs from kuwait, Yemen, Saudi etc clarified this to us in the west and previously in the middle east, it caused what seemed to be divisions amongst salafies. In fact it was not a division but rather a clarification of salafiya and people understanding and choosing it and others choosing whatever else. We are not bothered by those who leave. People went through hard times as although some had increased in knowledge of manhaj and sunnah, they hadn’t increased in knowledge of how to deal with it. That doesnt excuse those who ignored the Ulaymah though! These Ikhwaani companies and personaities that tried to (and did) influence as many young salafies in an underhanded way, did so as they cant challenge the Salafi mushaykh openly with kitab and sunnah. These ikhwaani types should be blamed for the heart ache they caused for families / people. Yuwmul Qiyamat.
    Alhamdollilah, the dawah if clear and flourishing now in the UK and europe and else where. I hope u can all come to terms with the past in USA, as I know u have different social issues and culture. I LOVVVVE SALAFIAHHHH man!!!!

  43. Some people are just so bitter, loll. The Ulaymah have said that there is no such thing as a ‘super salafi’ and to make such distinctions is wrong. I say that such people will use these terms to even the most polite, diplomatic and friendly muslim brother or sisters who conveys advice from Senior scholars about an innovation re-introduced by a current personality or an issue like that.
    When shaykh bin baaz rahmallah said we must not learn from or sit with abdurahmaan bin khaliq due to whats innovations were comming from the later, will you now call our noble father rahmallah a super salafi? These wonderfull people that Allah has blessed with so much ILM are the carriers of the sunnah. If Allah wants good for someone He gives them Ilm of the deen. So just of these Ulamyah and their rank. Allah swt mentions them in the quran a few times and the Allahs messenger salaho alaihi wasalam mentions them as his inherritors after his death. They advice and try to educate people in private for a long time and only if the person continues to deny the haq and is an open caller to the innovation di the Ulaymah openly warn against them. So when this happens we know it is a serious thing. If a lay man has got some behaviour deffects it doesnt mean you should ignore the truth he / she brings, particularly if you know it is from the people of knowledge. Since the time of the companions up until today there will be people splitting from the sunnah as foretold in hadith. Since those times upuntil today, those that stick with those senior in knowledge and age are guided while those who chose those junior in knowledge go astray. Like when the person who went astray regarding Allahs sifaat and left Hassan al basree rahmallah after he kicked them out, others followed them (who were obv junior in ILm to Hassan) just like today. I can see a person still using terms like ‘super salafies’ hasnt been trying to increase in ILM all thse years as this term was cleared up by the mushykh long time ago. For every weirdo, woman loving or so called agressive salafi…. I know the same amount from other ‘groups’ and dozens of the opposite from the Salafiyoon masha-Allah. Btw the term manhaj is also in Surah ma’ida@those who questioned it, oh and just like we dont judge islam by some muslims, dont judge Islam / Salafiah by some salafies going thru trubles in the west via ikhwaanies messing about in their ranks and where ILm is scarce anyway). peace and wasalamuwalaykum.

  44. I was thinking about this issue again and something occured to me.The issue isnt and never was that the people were ignorant or didnt learn correctly. A lot of us sat with the ulema and did the best that we could..but the the dawa became stagnant to me. It became a way of theory and hypertheticals rather than living Islam which is what I wanted. Everyone running to the Ulema with hypertheticals in order to get some kind of word against others rather than implementing ONE Islamic priinciple or hadeeth or ayaat. Thats the problem. When there were sisters haviing problems..hardly any brothers manned up for that sister. UK had no problems? I remember a sister who ws getting beaten up on a regular basis whos husband kicked in the door of another brothers house in order to further terrorize his wife. Call that Salafeeyah? Puhleese…and BHam Vz London Vs Luton…Nah the Uk has its fair share of problems but that stiff upper lip prevents it from being as scandalicious as it gets over here in the States.
    Tell me Im lying!
    Wsalaam

  45. Oh and the sister who was appalled by the sister calling sisters black crows. Thats actually terminology from a hadeeth that described the women looking like black crows and yes there are different tafseers for that hadeeth. I have heard that the women looked like crows because of the way that they wrapped their abayas around themselves and/or the hour that they were seen(ie at the Dawn) made their clothing look darker….The problem isnt the wording..its the way that its used as a slur against those who wear the full hijaab. “Them black crows” Just like the way that brothers used to say Hey Bint! in a way that sounded like there needed to be a n and a ch to complete the word….

  46. To myopicvision

    Asalamuwalaykum warahmatallah.

    Please refer to my post in Umar Lee’s final coments post and also my post above yours.

    You will see that I aknowledged the problems in the UK as well as USA and other places in the west.
    To quote you “No problems in the uk? phuleeees”
    loll, no one said there were no problems here. Infact my post in Umar Lee’s page tells of my personal experience on the recieving end at one point many years ago. I also tried to empathise (

  47. To myopicvision
    Asalamuwalaykum warahmatallah.

    Please refer to my post in Umar Lee’s final coments post and also my post above yours.

    You will see that I aknowledged the problems in the UK as well as USA and other places in the west.
    To quote you “No problems in the uk? phuleeees”
    loll, no one said there were no problems here. Infact my post in Umar Lee’s page tells of my personal experience on the recieving end at one point many years ago. I also tried to empathise (

  48. …with a brother and a the Sisters who mentioned what they went through, although (and please note) I said I felt it took place in a far worse manner in the USA.
    Now isnt that what you have just said too? Hence I dont know what the issue is. Maybe just an ovresight insha-Allah.

    I stick to my opinion though, that those who knew what they were doing to the Stdents of knowledge and youth with the intention to influence us away from the sunnah and more in to politics and compromise or failing that then just happy to cause disunity and fitnah amongst the salafiyoon, should be blamed more so and hated for the sake of Allah swt.

    This doesnt excuse everything by everyone else other than the heads of these plotts ofcourse.
    However, many of the moves and ‘to and fro’ and issues between the people that occured were correct and excellent anyway, Masha-Allah.

    I also stick to what I said originally when I stated that over the past several years the issues have been made even clearer to the lay man like me and the way to deal with them and that Dawatu Salafiya has enjoyed good brotherhood and increased activity for quite some time, alhamdollilah free from the involvement and plots of those who dislike this manhaj or those who followed them.
    May Allah SWT forgive us all and guide us all to good deeds and the correct understanding and unity upon that correct understanding and walaa and ba’aa. Ameen. wasalamuwalaykum.

  49. AsSalaamu Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

    You see! You see!!

    I apologize sister for what you had to endure. As Stagfir Allah.

    The problem of the Ummah does not lie outside the Ummah. It is us!!! Making Haram and Halal on authority other than Allah SubhanawataAllah.
    Throwing muslims out of the fold of Islam for reasons not befitting.
    Who are we to do such things?
    Are we Muslims? Do we make the rules or does Allah make the rules?

    Get back to Allah I implore. Ya Allah! Al Hamdulillahi Rabil Alamin! SubhanAllah!

    May Allah have mercy on all of the muslims and build us up from the what we are now inshaAllah.

    AsSalaamu Alaikum

  50. Asalamuwalaykum.

    Everything has been said. Those who needed advice or those who needed to air their views or hear that others were the same should be now satisfied insha-Allaah.

    I think that does not outweigh the bad of displaying all of this on the net for new muslims and non muslims to read.

    Please stop giving the kufaar something to laugh at! pls dnt add anything. I ask everyone only to post short messages to or emails to UMAR and the Sister to ask them to now REMOVE these articles and the blogs.

    I heard Shaykh Ghudyan mention such regarding various sites that type up fitnah details for the kufaar to see.
    We need to have gheerah / honour for Islam and not let the people Mock, Allaah, Islaam, Mohammed salaho alahi wasalam, Salafiya, the Sunnah and the Muslims!

    Pls remove it all. Jazqamullah hu khair to all.

  51. Assalamu Alaykum,

    This Article and the others around have NOTHING to do with Da’wah Salafia.

    Maybe these people call themselves Salafi, but their actions are evil. We should not feed the evil people by writing such things and slandering all of Ahlus Sunnah with it. This just goes to show how ignorant some people are.. including those who take pride in writing bad things about Da’wah salafia. It is a da’wah which is founded on the early teachings of Islam. I am quite content in reading from the Aqeedah, Tawheed books written from the early scholars. wasalam!!!

    May Allah save us from such ignorance as I see here.

  52. Asalaamu Alaykum

    I used to myself share similarly harsh views on salafiyyah to some of the posters of comments here. However after being a Muslim for well over a decade now; and having experience of various groups; and those outside of any group ie ‘average joe muslims’; I would say that the above described behaviours could and do apply to Muslims from many sections of society especially in the west.

    Take for example the preference for white revert sisters; and the hateful jealousy of Arab and other brothers who ‘dare’ to marry one; I myself am a white revert; and I experienced this type of behaviour from many brothers who were sunni, sufi, tableeghi or belonging to no particular group; Alhamdulillaah I can say with all honesty I did not experience it from any salafi brother. I mainly moved away from my old city because of this reason; and the salafi community were non-existent in that area anyway; the brothers trying to harass me very few of them even had a beard let alone wore sunnah clothing and the like.

    My husband gets random brothers getting hold of his number and calling him all the time asking him if he knows of any white sister they can marry; none of these brothers are salafi and most are barely practicing it is just them wanting a token white wife as arm candy. In the past, he has also had hateful remarks from non-salafi brothers; about how dare he marry a white sister one incident being in the masjid when it was time for tarawih salat.

    At that time I didn’t wear niqab but there is a difference of opinion amongst the salafi scholars anyway; it is only due to the misguided sticking to one particular scholar on all issues that has led to some salafis in the west denying this fact. I do wear niqab now; mainly to seek the reward of Allaah but one small reason is to escape harassment and chatting up by brothers who are clearly not salafi; which has happened even when I was clearly 9 months pregnant! overall though in this community the ratio is about 60% wearing niqab and 40% not; sisters do come to the classes and events here not even in hijab and they are not publically advised or rebuked (nor in private either Allaahu Alim) and overall the sisters do not bat an eyelid and treat them with kindness and gentleness; whereas I know sisters who have been rebuked for not wearing their hijab ‘properly’ in traditional Pakistani and Arab masjids.

    I used to be involved in a well known sufi group before I realised they were way outside the mainstream of Islam; and their hatred went well above anything I have seen from anyone calling themselves salafi; and I have even received threats from some of their members recently for exposing their activities. This group regularly threatens people; and calls them kaafir without basis including major ulema. Anyone who disagrees with them is subjected to a real life hate campaign. Yes this sufi group is considered deviant by many other sufis but then again the behaviour of the ‘pre-salafis’ mentioned in this article is also viewed with equal disdain by other salafis. I am not generalising but just pointing out there are extremists in every corner of society. There were also sufis from another group in my old city; that dressed as described; didn’t work and claimed benefits with the added ‘bonus’ that they claimed they had reached a certain level of enlightenment that they didn’t need to practice the 5 pillars properly anymore a’udhu billaah; I saw in person one of them smoking during daylight in Ramadan (he actually had a stall selling cannabis paraphenalia saying this is ok as you’re only selling it to the kuffar) while donning a thawb, perfectly wrapped imamah and some beautifully applied kohl! When asked about it he said smoking is allowed in Ramadan according to their Shaykh. Others from this group drink water during daylight hours saying going without is too ‘harsh’. These were from one of the particularly mainstream well known hanafi-school tariqahs but not many are aware of these beliefs as well as others. Their women tend to wear niqab with all enveloping garments and live in ‘purdah’ and even 3 year olds wear batwing jilbabs and long khimars with toddler boys dressed in sunnah clothing and imamahs (and not just to look cute they say this is essential); so it is not only salafis who participate in these types of behaviours.

    There were also in the ikhwaani masjids (masjids that were funded and endorsed by the ikhwanis in Egypt brothers, not just a label I have applied) who slept in the masjid every night; some of whom were even married but were just layabouts; and they were never told to go home; this behaviour was actually encouraged as they were ‘purifying their soul’. I went to several of their camps and staying up all night several nights on the trot just for the hell of ‘training oneself’ was encouraged (while some talks were taking place it was mainly just sitting around); I ended up suffering serious mental health effects from it but was told I was ‘weak’.

    I also for a long time lived in a tableeghi area and was speaking to a tableeghi brother about marriage at one point; he was qualified as a mufti from the dar-ul-uloom deoband but it transpired he was also a welfare fraud and speaking to another revert sister who has lived in that area for a while; most of the imams at the masjids are involved in dodgy things in some way or another which the community turns a blind eye to because of the ‘knowledge’ and ‘piety’ of these brothers.

    Now my husband has been to the states and experienced the harshness of a minority of brothers there (negatively discussing his manner of salah; while he was actually praying, over minor differences that even the salafi scholars disagree upon). He has also experienced a cool manner from non-salafi brothers there so it seems to be a mentality of some people who perhaps did not have the happiest upbringing Allaahu Alim.

    I know from my experience in the UK; such ignorant brothers as described in the account above; rather than going towards mainstream salafiyyah will tend to join an extremist ‘jihadist’ group; which labels all; as they call them, ‘saudi salafis’ or ‘salafiyyah jadeedah’ as kaafirs, along with most other Muslims. Such groups focus almost entirely on political issues to the extent I have seen them protesting outside and not going to pray all day because getting their point across is far more important; I know from the experience of (non-salafi) friends whose family members got involved in these groups; that some of them still drink and do drugs and date women; while all the while harping on about ‘the kuffar’ and trying to start fisticuffs with other Muslims. Many of them will also have several wives; all on welfare because they claim they are increasing the ummah. I was accosted in the street by some of these individuals; one brother pushing a leaflet into my face so hard, that the edge nearly gave me a papercut. Most of the brothers standing there were reverts; all wore ‘sunnah’ clothing (albeit with army jackets), long unkempt beards and even kohl; however if you called them salafi they would spit in your face. On the other extreme here they will join one of the sufi groups who are really along similar lines; with some of the groups that attract the most converts in the UK being known for having links to white-supremacism and other extremist movements; one such group even live in squats believing it too into the dunya to pay rent or buy a house!

    Whereas here; to be fair and this is something I have realised the Salafi communities do have their issues; but such behaviour is certainly not encouraged and I know when my husband was unable to work thanks to health problems for a time I felt really down because despite it not being his fault; the salafi community and their speakers here DO push working hard and legitimately and contributing to the society; and I was afraid of letting the side down. They also do not encourage polygyny unless the brother is really able to provide his time AND energy to two or more wives. Also I have had bad experiences with some of the salafi sisters here but when I looked at it; these sisters are not unlike any other sister I have met from the same cultural background; very cliquey bordering on racist in some cases; and having more of a loyalty towards their race than their fellow Muslim; it is a shame they have not taken on board the many reminders about such behaviour not being Islamic from the brothers doing the classes here; but if a person is so determined to be stuck in a certain pattern of behaviour (which is unfortunately more of a problem with women in my experience) there is little that can be done.

    It isn’t salafiyyah that is the problem; it is overall the kind of demographic that many reverts and returnees from the west are coming from and the lack of a supportive; holistic islamic society in the west in general. It is impossible to create as good a support system in the west as would be ideal; because of the lack of Arabic speaking ability; socio-economic factors and other problems. While the Muslim lands are not perfect you don’t generally find such problems of extremism of any kind in them as you do in the western countries.

  53. As Salaamu alaikum wa Barakatu,

    I first want to thank the sister for having the courage to write about her feelings. Feelings that so many of us who are converts share. I live in a major Eastern city and until last year tried to attend the main masjid in the area. The fitnah and the disgrace of sisters fighting in the masjid, brothers beating up the Imam, brothers marrying sisters and then not caring for them, and the list goes on…the horro of it all. Subhanna Allah.

    But let me ask, what does a sister do when these things are found in her very own home? When a child (not mine) of 11 years of age is told by her father – my husband, “you don’t have to like her, but she’s my wife so you have to respect her”. Or when the same brother allows her mother, a crack addicted, sometimes homeless non believer – into our home, where this same person – in front of the child calls me a liar!

    When I am told that I am not allowed to discipline this child, I should tell him when she does something wrong. Mind you, this same child thought I was the next best thing to sliced bread before we married. On our marriage day, she called her “family” to tell them she didn’t like me anymore. This because, the child felt her mother and father would someday get together afterall.

    This same brother, 6 weeks into the marriage was found texting “I love you for letting me be in your life” to a young girl who he said wanted to learn about Islam. And she wasn’t the only one. NOW, when I confront this brother in anger, he wants to tell me about Allah, and how I should do whatever Allah guides me to do. A year of marriage, and he hasn’t taught me anything since we married. Instead, he’ll come in with a book or a cd and say read this, or listen to this. As a family we haven’t discussed Allah since last Ramadan, and that includes reading the Qu’ran.

    He has his own business, a seasonal business, so every spring thru October, he becomes “too tired” to do anything. We don’t go anywhere together, and he has no interest in trying to go to counseling from the Imam or anyone else. We haven’t been intimate in about 2 months, and when we are, he lets me “do all the work”, only to realize that his body isn’t involved if you know what I mean.

    Recently, I had to stop working because my back was injured. NOW the brother has the excuse, “I have to work. Who’s gonna pay these bills, YOU?”

    I have all but come out of my garb completely since my experience to date has been about the same as the experiences the sister wrote about, and if this is the way I must live the rest of my life, I would rather go backto being a Christian. I can’t live this life knowing that this 11 year old is calling the shots when possible, or that my heart is being hardend by the actions of others that I’m supposed to love and support. I know I will be known as a “non believer” to the ummah, but this same ummah has so much fixing and healing to do that I don’t think it will matter to me what they think of me.

    If anyone has any suggestions to help this situation, please I ask that you send me your thoughts.

    As Salaamu Alaikum wa Barakatu Rahmatumallahi,
    Sister Ameera Iman

  54. Salam,
    Dear Ameera, I wont quote anything from the holy Quran or advise you to be patient and all , just only this universal fact,LIFE IS NOT A BED OF ROSES! These are the obstacles in your life, you can choose to run from them by being christian or whatever, or face them being a muslim,but do remember a bird facing opposite strong winds WILL cause it to loose its speed but the wind will also give it an opportunity to fly HIGER,it’s your choice, think about it.
    Wishing you the best.

  55. The Difference Between Abaadhiyah And Revivalist (Salafiyyah)
    By
    Nashir bin Abdul Karim Al aql

    First : Actually Al-Abaadhiyah is one of the sects from most of Khawarij, according to agreement of Ulama which clarified it. That Abaadhiyah Ulama, the old one and the new one, by knowledge and Manhaj are forced to admit this truth, through their commitment to history and aqidah that directed to that, and also through comparison with Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah.

    Secondly : That Al-Abaadhiyah is the least extreme compare to another Khawarij, such as Al-Muhakkimah, Al-Haruriyah, Al-Azariqah, Ash-Shufriyah and all which similar with them. And which got the readiness to have a dialogue and debate in a good way compare to all sects of Khawarij.

    Third : This does not mean that Al-Abaadhiyah contradicts Ahlus Sunnah in all aspects, but there are several aqidah and principles that are in the same way with Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah, but this is not the place to discuss it.

    Fourth : The difference between them and Sunni in aqidah are :

    1. Their Ta’wil to Allah’s characters, they have the same opinion as Mutakallimin in Takwil, and with Al-Muaththilah and Al-Mu’tazilah from in their speech that Allah’s characters is His own dzat.

    2. The opinion of most of them that Al-Qur’an is makhluq (created), that was the opinion of Al-Mu’tazilah and Al-Jahmiyah.

    3. Their denial to ru’yah (seeing Allah in the Day of Resurrection) which is certain with lots of nash and consensus, that was the view of Al-Jahmiyyah, Al-Mu’tazilah and Ar-Rafidhah.

    4. Their declaring Kafir to people who do big sin and their statement about the eternalness of them (big sinner) in Hellfire, that was the opinion of Al-Mu’tazilah and all sects of AL-KHAWARIJ.

    5. Their denial to syafa’at (supplication) which going to be given by Rasulullah to the big sinners from his ummat, which is from nash which is mutawatir about it, the Salafush Shalih had been in consensus about that, that was the opinion of Al-Mu’tazilah and all sects of AL-KHAWARIJ.

    6. Their fitnah (tale) to all the companions (shahaba), to the people that ummat already in concensus to ridha (be pleased) with them and who Rasulullah already be pleased to them, this goes along with Al-Mu’tazilah and Ar-Rafidhah.

    7. Their leaning to Musnad Ar-Rabi’ (in their thought) that the Kitab (book) is the most shahih (valid), with their blasphemy to hadits that got the source from shahih Kitab like Bukhari and Muslim and others.

    8. They allowed people to rebel to the leader and jama’ah Muslim, because of their maksiyat (doing sin), fasiq (big sin), and zhalim (tyrannical).

    9. Their loyalty to the earlier Khawarij which had declare Kafir and wage war against the companions, rebelled to Ali, like Al-Muhakkimah, Al-Haruriyah and the Nahrawan citizen, that is the opinion of all AL-KHAWARIJ sects.

    10. Their opinion about the steps (stages) in din (religion), like Azh-Zhuhur, Al-Kitman, Al-Bara’ah and asy-syira’ and Al-Kitman (taqiyyah).

    11. Their opinion in steadfastness in front of people who are not known from Muslim and others, they are not loyal to them and also do not put enmity to them until their condition are clear.

    12. No consideration to 4 Mazhabs Fiqh Sunniyah and others, but they only accept their fiqh, manhaj and laws in policy and sometimes they are in the same way as Ahlu As-Sunnah in many things.

    13. No consideration of Utsman radhiyallahu anhu ruling and of Ali’s, and to Umayyah, Abbasiyah and others than them whoever which was Muslimin leaders, which Ahlu As- Sunnah had been in support of their leaderships and the specialities of leadership and dominion of Muslim only to their leaders. This is resembling to Rafidhah and Khawarij to leaders and khalifah and jama’ah Muslim.

    Fifth :That Al-Abaadhiyah at this time resembling Al-Khawarij in every principle, because other sects of Khawarij had vanished, because of these condition :

    – Their Aqidah (beliefs and creeds) is the continouing of Al Khawarij’s aqidah in general, and they really been adding something to it, which is by taking the principles of Al-Mu’tazilah, Al-Jahmiyah and ahlul kalam.
    – Similarities of Islam’s scriptures, sects and groups, of the earlier centuries or now, that their opinions resembling Al-Khawarij opinions.
    – Their fiqh resembles that of Al-Khawarij. Actually their slogan and ethics resembles the slogan and ethics of Al-Khawarij.
    – Actually their position resembles Al-Khawarij’s attitude towards Khalifah and ummat leaders at that time, to the ruler and main figure in the government.
    Their countries and their dominion which had stand along the history, at the east and west (Islam countries) being categorized as Al-Khawarij countries.

    However, I do not deny that the view of some part of contemporary Al-Abaadhiyah to others amongst Muslimin, has change to openness and having pudency, and the preparedness to understand each other, and the change of judgement and attitude, this things deserve to be praised and it’s a good news, therefore it is better for us as Ahlus As-Sunnah to use this chance, and open to them a door to have a dialog, thoroughly and calmly, may Allah directs them to the straight path.

    Six: Part of contemporary Al-Abaadhiyah and contemporary Al-Abaadhiyah show the interpretation and important changes in their approaching to Ahlus Sunnah and show good preparedness to have peace, and back to the principles of Sunnah, that shown through their effort which is their seriousness to clarified how they behave to their pious predecessor’s aqidah and and give argumentations to the attitude and aqidah that was confusing, and through their efforts to make sure to people that Al-Abaadhiyah is not an Al Khawarij’s sect. I see this as to show their preparation and objectivity to submit themselves to the truth (one of Al Abaadhiyah who was shown great interest in this was Mu’ammar Yahya bin Hamud rahimahullah, died in 1400 H). Hopefully that Ahlus Sunnah will repay them with the preparation and spirit to have a dialog and to obey the law in Al Qur’an and As-Sunnah Rasulullah, and the manhaj of Salafush Shalih.

    I’m optimistic that the effort of part of the Muta’akhirin from them to show that Al-Abaadhiyah is “A group that is peace loving” and in accordance with jama’ah, and the interpretation of aqidah and their attitude to growth for the goodness in Islam , and their spirit which is seen to unite opinions inside the truth. And if they are avoiding the downside and mistakes so their efforts, insyaAllah, will have a good effect.

    Seventh : In according to the past elaboration, then I suggest the clarification about the difference between us and them to have dialogues and discussions and to apply the Law with the nash as being commanded by Allahu Ta’ala, and to advice between Al Abaadhiyah and Ahlus Sunnah, those things are held through meetings, muktamar, and majlis discussions and good correspondencies, which are away from fanatiscism (ethnics, groups etc), away from attacking and ridiculing to each other, and to have commitment with straight moral values in our religion.

    I see it that a good relationship and the dialogue between them and Ahlus Sunnah is a chance for everybody to understand each other, helping to each other and to have a dialogue with calmness and seriousness which give some benefits, under the watch from institutions or the likes, that it is suppose to be done by the people in charge and Ulama from both sides, with the atmosphere of understanding that is protected from deviation which could occurred in the dialogues, and it is guaranteed that all kinds of fanatiscism and any deviation from the truth will be avoided. And the atmospheres of knowledge which are best for holding these things are the university that involving Hai’ah Ulama from our side and their side. Everyone who is quickly doing these, bi idznillah, is actually racing in good deeds.

    III.1. The Nature and Tendency of Khawarij In This Century

    Rasulullah had mentioned about few sects of Khawarij that will be out near the end of time, he described them with his words in Shahih Hadits :

    “Will be out one qaum (people) at the end of time, in a century of superficial knowledge and narrow minded people, they will say the best words amongst the sayings of makhluq (created beings), their faith do not pass their throats, they transgress from religion as the arrows fail from hitting the target, where ever you find them then wage war against them, because there shall be rewards in the Hereafter for those who wage war against them. (HR.Bukhari, kitab Istinaabah Al-Murtaddin, bab 6 hadits number 6930. In Fath Bari, chapter 12, page 283).”

    When I presented the principles of the former Khawarij and those who remaineth, they are Al-Abaadhiyah, their manhaj, nature and principles, and the attitude of Ulama Salaf to them. I see something including the beneficial things to perfect the things that are interconnected with this problem in our contemporary life. This thing could be applied by knowing the nature and tendencies of Khawarij personally and by groups in our modern day.

    I’m not intending to prolong this in details of the events and opinions, but my goal is to give a warning and admonishment from things that could endangered and determine to act as a facilitator for every aspects that could be taken as lessons we found from this meetings.

    By that, I have done ijtihad while asking for Allah’s help to face the facts, characteristics and tendencies of Khawarij, or seldomly as part of it.

    These characteristics and tendencies, dissapointly, already seen in the middle of few groups from young people of this modern day, with the form and appearance that are varied, such as : groups, declarations, movements, orientations, slogans, methods, Manhaj, attitudes, and personal tendencies and groups etc. The things that we have to watch out from and which show the beginning of the appearance of seed of aqidah, thoughts and the characters of Al Khawarij.

    And include in this to show how serious this problem is, that part of them has been growing in the middle of contemporary Muslims da’wah, like Jama’ah Takfir wal Hijrah, At-Tawaqquf wa At-Tabayyun and others, these tendencies breed danger and difficulties, asking for advices and repairement which needs to be done as soon as we could, from the Ulama and students before this disaster become spreading to the entire region and become a means of spreading fitnah.
    Allah said “Be ye afraid of fitnah which shall not happen only to zhalim people amongst ye” (Al Anfal 8:25)

    We ask to Allah to protects us for the badness of fitnah, whether from which are seen and which are hidden, laa haula wa laa quwwata illa billaah (i.e.no potency and power but belong to Allah), enough for us Allah and as a best helper.

    III.2 Khawarij Tendencies In This Century Are Of Two Kinds

    In reality, they exist in two community :

    First community : Which is above the manhaj of Khawarij, which are similar to them in the principles, attitudes and laws, for instance which being called “Jama’ah Takfir wal Hijrah” and who called themselves “Jama’ah Al-Muslimin”, and I will talk about this after this.

    Second community : Which appear inside them one character or more that belong to the character and nature of Khawarij, start from aqidah, law, manhaj, slogan etc, which not yet fulfilling that according to author, to categorise them as pure Khawarij like Ahlu At-Takfir, Ahlu At-Tawaqquf and Ahlu At-Tabayyun, and few tendencies and in alike manner.

    The principles and other herecy (bid’ah) like:

    – Their war to literacy, because they think that the companions and prophet were illiterates.

    – Statement about stages of law, that they could leave few syi’ar and Islamic laws, like Jum’at prayer and violating few forbiddances like marrying Kafir woman (else than ahli kitab), cutting beard and eating animals slayed by Kafirin (else than ahli kitab), because they said that they are on Makkah period.

    – Creating principles and new laws which against manhaj of Ahlu Atsar, and their rejection to ijma’ Ulama and to the forbiddance of taklid and to follow someone else globally, and obligate everyone to do IJTIHAD.

    – Do not hold on the understanding of companions, Ulama and the imams of guidance in understanding Al Qur’an and As Sunnah.

    – They do not take notice on Islam Khilafah start from 7th century, and they declare “Kafir” to this period.

    – Vicious and cruel in characters.

    – Think that they are more knowledgeable, arrogant, have a big head and they feel that they are special amongst Muslimin.

    – They declare halaal to spill blood and killing everyone differrent from them, to everybody that once been with them and they call them: Murtaddin and to others from Muslimin, so to them is as the last thing they gonna do and who was being their victim was one of the syaikh, who was Dr.Muhammad Husein Adz Dzahabi, when they kidnapped and killed him, and to killing them have done, they were hurt because of that (which they called Murtaddin), that’s all the custom of Khawarij.
    We ask Allah for strength and safety.

    – Quickly to have a dispute and arguments and to spread anger amongst their followers.

    Second community:

    Their tendencies:

    – The dominance of tendencies in Ghuluw (going to extreme) in Din.

    – Tend to declare Kafir based on the Jahiliyah al Mujtama’ and ‘Uzlah Asy-Syu’uriyah and al Bara’ and what they call Tauhid al Hakimiyyah and they correlate between Wala’ wal Al Bara’ to the Kafir attitude towards Thaghut (Iman to Allah only).

    – Their claim of the ability of Ijtihad. That’s why they leave the knowledge of Ulama and disregard them and deny the trustworthyness of Ulama.

    – Amongst them there are who underestimate the principle of Tauhid, like Tauhid Asma’ wa Ash-Shifat, and ignore the critics to Mu’tazilah, Jahmiyah and Al Asy’ariyah, with the suggestion that those sects aren’t exist anymore or they think that all Muslimin at this time are from Al-Asy’ariyah, this is a foolishness and mistake.

    – Most of them treat Muslim in Muslim country with the attitude to treat Kafir. They tawaqquf (hold) themselves from practicing Islamic law to those who aren’t from their sect. They do not do: Shalat behind imam who is not their imam, do not utter salaam to them and also do not answer it and do not witness the burial of the death.
    And so forth like in marriages and inheritances.

    – They like to test the aqidah of Muslim, because they do not accept their Islam, unless after the identification to their condition and ask for the evidence of it.

    – Do not participate with Muslim in religious rites, like in Jihad and al- Amru bil Ma’ruf and An-Nahyu ‘an Al-Munkar except if that goes along with their principles and must be under their control.

    – Part of them neglect Zakat because they think that they are on Makkah period in Rasulullah time, and they say that Zakat depends on the existence of Imam (from their sect) and in accordance to their criterias.

    – Stress too much on Wala’ wal Bara’ to the extremes.

    – Many among them who do Taqiyyah and going to the extreme in holding their secret. Because their aqidah and thinking are against the understanding of Ulama and Muslimin in general.

    – Their existence somehow blurred in the sight of most Muslimin, because they declaration to have commitment to As-Sunnah and Al-Jama’ah and the wellknown imams like Syaikhul Islam Ibn Taimiyah, Asy-Syathibi and few Salafiyyah leaders in dakwah in Najd (Iraq).

    – One of their characters is using slogan like the rejection of udzur because of purely foolishness, using the consideration that even if there is no knowledge to the meaning and consequences to “Laa ilaha illallah”, that is denied, even with the existence of Al Miitsaq/agreement with Allahu Ta’ala (before all human beings born to this world), even with dalil fitrah and dalil of common sense.

    – Their focus on the discipline of Ushul Fiqh knowledge in the things that help their their way of thinking, but they’re foolish to the intended meaning which consist in that. Actually knowing this reality, sometimes thy won’t find this things gathered wholly in one group or in individuals, but sometimes seen from the people, half of this doctrines or more to some other groups or on numerous people.

    This tendencies still need more deep investigation and more serious attitude in dealing with it.

    Subhanallaahi wa bihamdihi, subhanakallaahumma wa bihamdika, asyhadu alla ilaha illa anta, astaghfiruka wa ‘atuubu ’ilaik.

  56. Masculinity? Well, things like the the Islamic view of a womans wealth – that she has no obligation to spend it on her family – just reflects the basic fundamental nature of sexual difference. I realized what should have been obvious, when a very reasonable, strongly anti-sexist feminist pointed it out. A woman and child is a dependent unit. They need to be taken care of. And it’s our job.

    Men are supposed to go out there and somehow provide. Women are entitled to have – a sense of entitlement (within limits of course). And boy they do know how to make us feel where we’ve failed them in this. Men who do not provide, and think their masculinity revolves around acting out their own macho fantasies about themselves, they are not really…. Need I say it.

    I just know in my own very nature if I fail to provide adequately for the females in my family especially, then I have failed, as a man. And you know what? Just about all the decent guys I know seem to feel the same thing. So OK, as a man I can theoretically inherit more (Well actually, nothing, as my father has not embraced Islam). But what I do get I have to spend it on shelter, food, protection, warmth etc etc.

    And you know what? I really want to do that. It is extremely fulfilling. However, if this goes unappreciated, or completely taken for granted, then I do often feel that only if it were possible, a week entirely without indoor plumbing would sort the more troublesome ladies out.
    :)

  57. Sister Ameerah may Allah help you with the problems you are facing insha’Allah.

    Extremism in anything, including aligning yourself to a particular group of Muslims, even if in your mind they are the “true” group, is wrong.

    Just as Muslims have to interact with non-Muslims well, so do people who percieve themselves as being on the way of the “true” Muslims, have to be polite with so-called deviants.

    Anyway Islam is simple and there are some basic virtues which it teaches which inherently resonate with any individual who is sincere. One virtue is that of self-reliance and working to support yourself. Those who make excuses to justify their laziness lack sincerity.

  58. its sad u talk all this stuff about the salifiyah movement but do you know what salafi even means the salfi are the first generation that the prophet may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him told us were the best genereations and from among them were his close companions the 4 rightly guided kalifah. now if people who follow salifiyah in a way u like or not becasue the prophet told us who the best genereations where and to follow the 4 righltly guided kalifahs and after him they are the best example for us. the salaf were those first 3 righlty guided generations and when in arabic yaa is put to salaf making it salafi it attaches the people to those salaf meaning thats who they follow. now the propblem with the people will always be there but its upon u to hold firm to the sunnah even if all muslims are on the wrong path if they were what would u turn form islam because of the people there will be corruption in the people but its upon u to keep yourslef free from it by staying firm upon the sunnah

  59. As Salaamu Alaykum

    strange , its not so bad here in the u.k, well aslong as the youth dont destroy the salafi dawah….. to many have had it hard, just remember this is the way its meant to be, there 73 sects and one is upon the Quraan and Sunnah, and i havent seen any north african group yet! to show they are.

    she mentioned her husband and moderate islam or a word like that, it means compromise, niqaab isnt fard and neither is the turban , so looks like the sister is mixed up too,,, oh and not forgetting how you were glad you left, as you would recieve news from home, instead of saying stop and no to the gossip you became part of it and listened to it……….

    Allaah mustaan

    Walaykum As Salaam

  60. I have so much to say but can’t find the words in a way I feel you have slandered the “salafee movement” I am one who agrees’s to the correct following of it I also understand what you mean but as a muslim who’s family did not except Islam most likely do to there arrogance you should understand. I agree with the niqaab which there are many opinion’s on but I love wearing them I work for a major hospital in my town and wear full hijab and have a salafi husband who doesn’t sau you can’t work for the kuffar and i said those things to say it is not the school of thought that should be attacked but the people who choose to butcher it with his Islam and her islam so I again also agree with somethings and disagree with most .

  61. I have so much to say but can’t find the words in a way I feel you have slandered the “salafee movement” I am one who agrees’s to the correct following of it I also understand what you mean but as a muslim who’s family did not except Islam most likely do to there ignorance you should understand. I agree with the niqaab which there are many opinion’s on but I love wearing them I work for a major hospital in my town and wear full hijab and have a salafi husband who doesn’t sau you can’t work for the kuffar and i said those things to say it is not the school of thought that should be attacked but the people who choose to butcher it with his Islam and her islam so I again also agree with somethings and disagree with most .

  62. bismillaah, wal humdulillaah, ussalawaatu wass salaam ‘alun nabeey.

    To reason that because there are so many bad Muslims, Islaam must be false – as an argument on its is fatally flawed. All Muslims would agree.

    If the word ‘Muslim’ means a practitioner of Islam – does one cease becoming ‘Muslim’ due to one’s imperfect practice of Islam?

    Of course not.

    If Salafiyya is a shorthand way of stating “Islaam is based on the Quraan and the Sunnah as understood by companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him)” – then if Mohammed Abdul Wahhaab made errors does that make “Salafiyya” erroneous ?

    Do the errors of Ahmed bin Hanbal, Imaam Maalik, Imaam Shaafi’ee, Abu Haneefah, Imaam Awza’ee, Imaam Laith bin Saad, Imaam Jaa’far… All of these illustrious imaam defined Islaam as following the Quraan and Sunnah as understood by the companions. Do their respective errors in judgement made The Quraan and Sunnah as understood by the companions a falsehood?

    Of course not.

    Also, do the limitations of the hanbali madhab as mostly used in Saudi Arabia – and the errors of the Ulema there – basing there judgements on the Quraan, the Sunnah, the understanding of the companions, the khulafaa ar-raashideen, the tabi’een, the atbaa at-tabi’een and the previous ulema on the same path – do their errors nullify these great sources if Islamic jurisprudence?

    So you have a couple of inner city african american brothers with misplaced priorities in the deen, suffering from laziness and excuses etc etc etc… they say they are muslims, they say they follow the sunnah, they say they are careful not to deviate from the methodologies embodied in the sunnah, they make salaah…

    Did their shortcomings invalidate the islaam???

    There are good Muslims and there are not so good Muslims.

    Our example, however is the Prophet of Allaah – peace be upon him.

    And Islam is found in the Quraan and the Sunnah as understood by the companions — whether you call that Sunni, Ahlus Sunnah, Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaat, Ahlul Hadeeth, Ansaar Uss-Sunnah, Salafi, Athari, Muhammadi….. Its not the label, its the meaning.

    And Allaah knows best.

    Wass Salaam

  63. Asslaamu ‘alaikum dear Sister Ameerah

    I am so shocked to hear your problems. Remember that you do not have to take bad behaviour from anyone! The most important thing in this world is to be able to worship Allah freely and with good mental and physical health. If a marriage is destructive to your faith you are free to choose an option OUT. There are organisations out there that can help. Please make use of them to make the right choice for you!

    http://stopfamilyviolencenow-org.web25.winsvr.net/Home.aspx

    http://www.isna.net/Resources/articles/domestic-violence/Ending-Domestic-Violence-in-Muslim-Families.aspx

    Please remember that domestic violence is more than only physical violence.

    May Allah help you, guide you and all muslims!

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