Standing for Justice

I got this as en email from Sabri Ben Kahla a longtime friend of mine. Sabri was born in Bethesda, Maryland. Lived in Falls Church, VA all his life, went to catholic elementry school and J.E.B. Stuart highschool rated the most ethnically diverse school in the country.

He graduated with honors from GMU at the age of 21. Studied abroad all over the mid east.  Got  a scholarship to University of medina.  He was working on his masters at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International relations

Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem

Dear Brothers And Sisters:  As-Salem Aleikum wa rahmtu Allah

I pray this letter finds you all in good health and high imaan. I haven’t spoken to many of you for a while. But if you are receiving this email, we have met somewhere along this journey of life. Whether it be from GMU, or studies abroad in Syria or Egypt, or the University of Medina, or JHU or Hajj or a masjid, or a conference, or some type of activity; I have met you. I pray that you remember me. To give you an update on recent events of my life: In June of 2003, shortly before I was to graduate from the University of Medina with a degree in Islamic law, I was arrested in Saudi Arabia. I was held in a small concrete cell without charge or explanation and no human contact other than periodic interrogations for a month. At the end of the month I found out this was done at behest of the F.B.I.  I was taken by the F.B.I. on the tarmac of an airport, forced to strip, photographed in the nude, I was blindfolded and shackled in a very uncomfortable position within a sealed pod for approximately 17 hours. I was denied my right to a lawyer and threatened with transport to Guantanamo. I felt sad and betrayed, never having been arrested in my life and never hurting anyone, I was being treated worse than a murderer. Judge Brinkema stated:

The uncontested evidence again is the defendant had been held under conditions which would not be acceptable for a United States-based defendant in a criminal case…Even solitary people in the United States get one hour a day out. That’s 24 hours a day in this cell. The evidence is uncontested that the lights were on at all times and that he had not been told why he was being held. It’s a Kafkaesque situation where he was in Never-Never Land . I found credible his statement that when he realized he was being turned over to the FBI, as a U.S. citizen, he expected that he would be getting better treatment, but he was left in a significant limbo in that situation…it’s uncontested that Mr. Benkahla had been awake for over 24 hours, so he was sleep deprived. He’s obviously a well-educated and intelligent man, and I don’t doubt that he was probably somewhat articulate in how he interacted with the agent. Nevertheless, under these types of conditions, I find that both the requirements of Miranda that a clear explanation of the rights be communicated to the defendant and the defendant voluntarily and intelligently waived those rights; that did not happen in this case.

I was the final defendant in the “Virginia 11” case. Because of lack of evidence those charges were dropped but the prosecution came up with new charges. On March 9, 2004 after 8 months of home confinement and a one day bench trial, U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema ruled that I was not guilty on all counts. Instead of being allowed to get on with my life; after the acquittal, I was called for several “debriefings” with the F.B.I.  I was compelled to testify before two Grand Juries. My home was raided and my elderly father had to watch in horror as his sons were put into handcuff and his privacy violated. Two years later, in February of 2006, I was indicted again in what my lawyers would argue is a case of double jeopardy; this time on charges of making false statements to the Grand Juries and obstruction of justice. In July of 2006 there was a superseding indictment charging me with making false statements to the F.B.I. (the same charge that was dismissed during the first case).  In October of 2006, one week before my scheduled trial, the F.B.I. raided my father’s medical supplies business, causing my sister to be rushed to the hospital. They took boxes and boxes of our personal documents and belongings. Finally, on February 5, 2007, my trial has come to an unfavorable conclusion. I was not allowed to mention to the jury that I was acquitted, yet the prosecution brought in all the “evidence” of the previous case which has already been ruled upon to prejudice the jury. The Judge himself had to reprimand the prosecutors on several occasions. According to the guidelines I should face 1-2 years, but with the enhancements that have been used with Muslims, it could be pushed up to 15-20. We hope the judge will overrule the jury’s verdict, if not we plan to appeal. I am seeking your support. Allah says what can be translated as ” Oh you who believe! Stand our firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah…” (4:135) and the prophet Muhammed (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “None of you truly believes till he loves for his brother what he loves for himself,” and “to not take for granted any good action (m’aroof)” no matter how small it is. We are currently gathering letters of character on my behalf; also if you have any legal connections that could help with the appeals process or any other type of advice or support that would be greatly appreciated. You can write to:

The Honorable Judge James C Cacheris,                                                          Date:
U.S. District court for the Eastern District of Virginia
401 Courthouse Sq
Alexandria, Va 22314
 
Dear Judge Cacheris:

State:

Who you are, your background, education, employment, city of residence, where you are from, etc…….

What this letter is about.

How you know Sabri and for how long.  What is your impression of the type of person he is.  What are his values and thoughts on Islam, life and America.  Did he talk about his experiences overseas? Do you think of him as an honest human being? Why? You can give examples of his past actions that can substantiate your opinion.

You can end by asking the judge to reconsider the jury’s verdict or to have clemency in sentencing.

Type your name, address, and phone number if desired.

Sincerely, Sign your name.

This letter will go straight to the judge, so no one should be afraid. We shouldn’t be afraid anyway as Allah tells us not fear anyone but Him. Please don’t procrastinate, maybe you can write the letter when you finish reading this; we need the letters as soon as possible. You can write me at Sabri Ben Kahla, 6019 Fair View Place, Falls Church, VA 22041 and/or email me at sabribk@gmail.com. If you have any questions feel free to contact me. Jazakum Allah khier, I thank you all for your help and support. May Allah bless you and keep you safe.

Your brother,

Sabri Ben Kahla

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31 thoughts on “Standing for Justice

  1. Umar,

    Is Sabri’s family from Tunisia? If so, I know this brother. He is kind of short, dark hair, wears a short beard, and of medium complexion?

    It is amazing what these people will do. May God stand by him.

  2. Laa hawla wa laa quwwata illaa billaah… may Allah protect this brother from these injustices, and grant him the strength of Imaan and of will to stay strong in the face of these trials and tribulations, ameen!!!

    :(

  3. But is he innocent, Umar?

    If this had happened to a friend of mine, I’d be going to bat for him, so don’t get me wrong based on my initial question. But that said… again… the question remains… was your friend involved in terrorist activities?

    I’ve read his letter that you’ve posted, Umar, including the part where he wrote, “I felt sad and betrayed, never having been arrested in my life and never hurting anyone, I was being treated worse than a murderer.”

    “Never hurting anyone…” Is that it? Is that the passionate defense of an innocent man or is it a “technical” truth in the sense that he’s never personally physically hurt someone?

    Umar… all I can do is put myself in his place and if I were an innocent man being accused of crimes I didn’t commit I’d be saying so in every single paragraph and shouting my innocence from the rooftops. If it were me… instead of indicting those who accused me for their treatment of me, I’d be concentrating on not only protesting my innocence but on making the case for my innocence – not concentrating on making the case for how my captors treated me badly.

    Your friend complains about his treatment, he complains about “double jeopardy,” he points to his Miranda rights… but except for that brief claim that he has never “hurt” anyone…

    You see where I’m coming from, Umar?

    Hmm… you’re friend graduated from GMU. Your friend was pursuing a Masters from JHSAIR? Not too shabby in terms of credentials… and I would naturally assume… contacts. If your friend’s innocence is such a given, I would assume his fellow graduates/candidates and professors would be go to bat for him and I would further assume the professors at least would have the sort of juice to make this a major public scandal if things are as clear cut as made out.

    Anyway… thanks for posting the info.

    BILL

  4. Well, as I am 6’2″, people of “average” height are short to me.

    Anyway, the situation is messed up. I will write a letter to the judge. I didnt know the brother that well. I used to see him at Jummah prayers at Dar al Hijrah and talked to him there and ran into him at other places. He met my wife and I at the Borders up the way from the mosque.

    Reminds me of the phrase, “But for the grace of God, there go I”.

  5. William R. Barker,

    Aren’t we supposed to be innocent until proven guilty? Shouldn’t we uphold the right to a fair trial? The Patriot Act and other measures that have been enacted are violating people’s civil liberties. We are back to McCarthyism and the Red Scare.

  6. Margari,

    To answer your question… sure. Innocent until proven guilty. Kahla was convicted on February 5, 2007.

    Now… you wanna take a shot at addressing my questions/comments?

    BILL

  7. Salaamu Alaikum,

    I knew Br. Sabri, he is a great brother and it’s sad that his family have to go through all this nonsense.

    As for señor Billy Baker, stating that Sabri shouldn’t be talking about his mistreatment from the authorities but his innocence. Obviuosly he didnt write this e-mail to the jury nor does he needs to prove his innocence to us (or the people he wrote to), since we are not judging him as you might have already.

    May Allah Protect him and his family. Amin

  8. Bill,
    I have questions about this being a fair trial. The innocence project has freed many of men who have been “proven” guilty in court and convicted of crimes.
    From what I read, seems like playing pain ball can be tantamount to training for military activities. Be really careful who you hang out with while abroad and where you go, you don’t want to wind up in Guantanamo.

  9. Regarding Sabri Ben Kahla, it is unlikely that any of us posting can assume the correctness of our own thoughts based on the scant information in an e mail as opposed to the preponderance of evidence which would have been presented in a legal trial setting.

    That being said, it is interesting that he was picked up first by the legal arm of the House of Saud. Possibly they had some concerns? He is obviously highly educated, but education does not denote purity of actions.

    That being said, at least our nation does allow an appeal process for those who seek to pursue such avenue.

    Tammy

  10. Margari,

    You write, “From what I read…”

    (*SMILE*)

    Now, you’re obviously sophisticated enough to know that there’s perhaps… oh, I don’t know… a “bit” more to the story than just Mr. Sabri Ben Kahla’s version.

    (In other words… what Tammy said.) (*GRIN*)

    Sure… no doubt innocent men and women are sometimes found guilty and thus unjustly punished – even in America. And no doubt when the federal government really wants to “get” someone, the odds are they’re going to succeed. After all, they have for all intents and purposes unlimited resources.

    That said… our justice system – for good or ill – is heavily weighted in favor of the defendent and the proof of this lays in the fact that the original “Virginia 11” charges were dropped.

    But, hey… Margari… we’ve read the same post. We’ve read the same letter. Mr. Sabri Ben Kahla gives us some troubling snippets from U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema which of course we either accept on faith to be accurate or we don’t – but in any case the key word here is “snippets” and certainly we don’t have the context of of a jury trial transcript (and evidence) that we’d need to hold a truly educated opinion. Imagine… instead of Mr. Sabri Ben Kahla’s letter we were all reading a letter penned by the prosecutor. See the point?

    So… cutting to the chase… though so far you’ve avoided the key question I first asked Umar, I’ll try one more time: Do you believe – do you know for a fact – that Mr. Sabri Ben Kahla is an innocent man falsely accused and convicted of being involved with terrorism?

    BILL

  11. Bill,
    How am I avoiding a key question that you are asking Umar?
    You did not ask me. But to answer your question: I do not know Sabri, nor was I out painballing with the brothers so I don’t know what their intentions were. But what I do know is that, as citizens, we have a right to a fair trial. The fact that our rights are being rolled back, such as evidence that would be thrown out in a fair trial being used to convict people or people not knowing evidence that is used against them is scary. I say that as a Muslim who travels abroad, who writes critiques about societies, who researches touchy issues about social justice. Yeah, sometimes us academics land in jail because a government doesn’t like what we have to write about. I am sensitive to these issues because I feel vulnerable, I know it could be any of us.

  12. Bill Barker, I admire your sound reasoning wallah (are you Muslim though????)

    Jihadists fail to see that the state they seek no one is ready to live in yet, most Muslims included!!! And frankly I’d fight alongside America if it launched a war on Saudi Arabia! I think American administrations are fairer than the Saudi or any regime ruling in any Muslim country!!!! I’d rather live and die here for the rest of my life, even change my fully Arabic name, adn not go back to live in any part of the Arab or Muslim land!!! The West deserves to be ruling the world, and we Muslims nowadays deserve to be slaves to the masters!!! Everybody wants to live in Western Europe or North America, everybody wants to look like them, dress like them (Westerners I mean, not just Whites), and even wish candidly to have his name changed to something like theirs!!! As a Muslim Arab from a land that was severely damaged due to American support of Israel, I still hold Israel to be better to live in than in my native Palestinian terrorities, even after there will be an independent Palestine, I don’t want to live there. The good among us are very few and rare, and the wicked and ill-mannered are so many, that’s why we have such bad unjust rulers and will continue to as long as we don’t love one another or live according to Islam.

    Al-Qaeda is a failure, and will never succeed. No one wants to live in a Taliban style state, everybody wants to live in a Western-like state. Those ultra-Orthodox Muslims..let them have Afghanistan back for all I care, and let the Shia clerics rule that Iran, just box them in, and you’ll see that one day soon they’ll all leave because of boredom and depression.

    Face it, there is no time or room here for another Caliphate yet. America is after its own interests, and its been seeking them to her best ability and I admire that despite the mistakes and wrongs made onto other peoples. But those other peoples..do they deserve to rule themselves and not have America after every mouthful in their throats??? I believe there are many scums out there who don’t deserve to live or make our life miserable, like al-Qaeda’s jihadists, but I also don’t like those who suck up to rulers in the Muslim world just to survive and keep their jobs. Now I don’t know what the hell I’m saying, all I know is that I hate more Arabs, way way way more than I hate non-Muslims, so I’d rather serve and die in this Western country I’m sitting in..than any other Arab country or Muslim in existence. We stink, we suck, we are stupid, I want to have my blood mixed with every race in America but that of any known Muslim peoples, I want my name changed, I want my kids not to look or sound like Muslims, yet I want them to worship the one and only God worthy of worship.

    To hell with Jihadists and all America-hating Muslims. Find me something better first, idiots!!!! Leave us Muslims in the West alone!! and leave that fiqh you go overseas to study…leave it in the books because you can never and will never apply it even on your own selves!!!! You are worse than wolves among each other, you are disgusting and mean to your fellow Muslims and even ur own relatives and kids and families.

    I don’t care about the deaths in Iraq and Palestine, because I’ve known enough Palestinians and Iraqis to say with a full mouth: THEY DESERVE IT!!!! And this fuckin’ jihadi deserves the shit he’s in for trying to stand up to the Super Power in this world!!!! Fucking what in the world is he doing in Medina studying Islam in this day and age???? Go get a job, don’t waste your time trying to help Muslims understand something like their deen, they aren’t interested you fool but with making money, marrying a Whitie, and living in the West!!!! Shit, go look at the ISNA goers, all are horney and don’t give a damn what the lecturer says!!!! If they did, those tens of thousands attending each conference would have made the world and America they live in..a much much better place than it already is!!!!! But they ain’t good for SHIT!!! so please allow America to shit on them, this is the least it can do to show them what they really deserve and mean in this life!!!!

  13. Deeamn Just Curious. That came across as some seriously self-hating bull poopoo.

    I’m not big on penning “character” letters for individuals when I have no idea who they are (how do you write a character letter if you don’t know someone?) or what kind of evidence landed them in jail, but I must seriously object to pretty much everything you just wrote. Some of it was downright offensive. The palestinians and Iraqis “deserve” what they are getting?!?! Come on. Give me a break

  14. The break I’ll give you is this: the very few good ones among them..what they are getting is an expiating for their sins and a means to elevate their status in the Hereafter, but the majority of wicked and filthy ones among them..deserve a treatment filthier and more wicked than what they were doing to those around them before the strong fist of America punsihed them in the face.

    Lots of garbage among Muslims, the only way to lessen it is by unleashing America and Israel on them, and whoever is left they will unleash themselves on each other soon after Israeli’s and Ameicans leave.

    I’m sorry I am Arab. Not that I prefer to be of any other color / race, no, I just wish to be only Muslim and minding my own business and with very little or no Arab genes in me whatsoever. Nothing contemporary makes one proud to be Arab but the language and the generations of early Muslims. Today’s Muslims make me ashamed to say I’m one, so do today’s Arabs.

  15. It is my understanding, and it is just that, that the brothers who went out paintballing looked at places like Bosnia and said they would not allow that to happen to them.

  16. It is difficult to debate this topic when we have radically different views of the American justice system. The default position for many Americans is that the system works, and through a trial, the innocent person is proven guilty and convicted. For many Muslims, the opposite is true. With a conviction, the innocent person goes to jail.

    I do not know this individual personally, but based on other cases, I have a few thoughts.

    After 9/11, counter-terrorism became the top priority of American law enforcement, and justifiably so. However, terrorism is unlike other crimes, in that it does not occur with the same frequency. If child molesting is the top priority, we expect the authorities to arrest a lot of child molesters. If drug trafficking is the top priority, we expect them to arrest a lot of drug traffickers. But how many terrorists are there? You may only need to arrest a handful every year, or every decade, to stop an attack.
    My impression is that due to political pressure, professional esteem, and a good dose of ignorance, the law enforcement community feels obliged to produce a steady flow of terror arrests. In this sense, they are like wolves that need a periodic “kill” for survival. But even with the Patriot Act and general erosion of Constitutional rights, there still must be some legal basis for a conviction. Thus most cases draw on two factors:

    1) an alleged expression of support or sympathy for “terrorist organizations,” or if that is unavailable, using foolish and poorly conceived statements against the defendant (like cheering the space shuttle crash because a piece of wreckage was found in Palestine, Texas.).

    2) some deed that can be construed as threatening (shooting guns in the woods, playing paintball, buying plane tickets to Pakistan, encouraging others to do likewise, etc.)

    Therefore, my general impression of these cases is that the defendants probably said or did something foolish, but ultimately they pose no threat to America or anyone else. When confessions produced in the Saudi legal system are admitted into US courts, my doubts are magnified.

    The other troubling issue, as mentioned in the brother’s letter, is that even when a technical violation of the law is proven, the sentencing is extreme. As an example, some of the US soldiers who raped and killed the Iraqi girl (and were brought to justice, alhamdulillah) may be out or prison on parole before many Muslims with highly dubious convictions.

  17. However we feel about the situation, its pretty clear things will change no matter who wins the next election.

    1. Gitmo will be closed, special prison created stateside.

    2. Anti-torture bill passed (perhaps with clause for “ticking-time-bomb” situation requiring Presidential signature on PUBLIC document – no president will ever go through with torture if they know it will be exposed unless under nuke attack)

    3. Confessions extracted by torture (or torture supporting countries) will not be admissible.

    4. LOTS of plea deals.

    5. Everything is videotaped like in every other prison to avoid law-suites and abuse allegations.

    6. A PR campaign with former terrorists who turned around for reduced sentences. Oprah tours.

    7. “The buck stops here” Reagan strategy. White house will learn value of telling the complete truth, including the embarrassments and stand by their actions.

    McCain, Clinton, Obama.. doesn’t matter. The next president will understand that perception is more important than reality and will adjust.

  18. Margari,

    Cute deflection with your “you didn’t ask me, you asked Umar jab,” however… (*SMILE*)… in my March 25, 6:47 p.m. post – addressed specifically to you – I clearly asked, quote, “Now… you wanna take a shot at addressing my questions/comments?”

    And not to belabor the point… (*GRIN*)… but in my March 26, 1:53 p.m. post – AGAIN addressed to YOU – I AGAIN asked, quote, “Do you believe – do you know for a fact – that Mr. Sabri Ben Kahla is an innocent man falsely accused and convicted of being involved with terrorism?”

    With respect, Margari, I find open and honest debate to be preferable to gamesmanship and parsing – though again, an “A” for effort. (*SMILE*)

    (Best old-school southern redneck sheriff drawl impersonation… “You’re not one of them thar LOY-ERS… are you, girl?) (*GRIN*)

    Anyway… (*WINK*)… just to be clear… in your March 26, 6:55 p.m. post you “seem” to be saying that you don’t know whether the guy actually WAS supporting terrorists and from the tone and context of your reply I infer you don’t really care if he was or wasn’t. Is that a fair reading of your position?

    Just Curious – No, I’m not a Muslim. I’m what you’d call a cafeteria Episcopal – attending Church without fail every Christmas Eve and once a decade or so on Easter. Other than that… (*SMILE*)… I PRAY that there’s a God and I PRAY that there’s an afterlife and I PRAY that the way I lead my life here on Earth is pleasing to God.

    * JC – I’ll continue replying to you in another post.

    BILL

  19. Stop hating on arabs, all of you – America and Israel, no less than Arabs or Pakistanis or whatever, have their hateful and vile elements – none of which stops any of them from being human. “Of the people of the book are those who are faithful to their trust, and fall in prostration before their Lord” – and there are equally those “who betray their trust” and “plan, and Allah is the best of planners”…

    Racist garbage has no place here: go listen to http://www.preachermoss.com or whatever –

    as for Jordan, you may be partially right about the demand for justice being great amongst some Americans, but I’ll wait and see: the historical record does not support a belief that democratic voting structures reject tyrannical measures, Jews should know very well that the Nazis were elected to power democratically, because the nation was afraid, had been humiliated, and was suffering from sanctions due to it’s wars…

    and scapegoating Jews led them to genocide.

    On a different topic: What do you think of the new Arab League reiteration of the ‘Prince AbduLlah plan’ from 2002?

  20. Just Curious wrote… “I think American administrations are fairer than the Saudi or any regime ruling in any Muslim country!!!!”

    Certainly the American system of justice – with all its acknowledged faults – is the fairest in the world from the perspective of the accused. Heck… forget comparing the USA to Saudi Arabia – try comparing our adversarial system to France’s Napoleonic Code. You DON’T wanna be on the wrong side of the bars in a French jail. (*GRIN*)

    I don’t think the West should “rule the world” as you put it, but if any one nation is going to be the most powerful on Earth… I’m glad it’s America. Are we perfect? Far from it! (I think we’re far better than the Europeans… but we’ll leave that debate for another day.) (*SMILE*) Are we sometimes overbearing and insensitive? Sure. On the other hand, have we done more good for more people throughout the world than any nation in history…? I think we have. Does the average American have generally good intentions towards his fellow human beings? I believe he or she does.

    Israel…? Again… a separate topic worthy of its own discussion. (*SMILE*) The American-Israeli alliance being a given… allow me to remind you all that it was the Brits – Europe as a whole, in fact – even the Soviets initially – which created the State of Israel. Any student of history knows that if anything, America was mainly an ANTI-colonial power prior to the responsibilities thrust upon it after WW-2 with the beginning of the worldwide Cold War.

    (The FRENCH were the ones to get us involved in Southeast Asia – i.e. Vietnam – and recall that it was our President Eisenhower who responded to the British-French takeover of the Suez Canal by turning on our own European “fellow white/Western” allies in order to return Canal control to Egypt.)

    Anyway… I’ve gone a bit far afield of the original topic… (*SMILE*)… so I’ll end here.

    BILL

  21. Musa Maguire writes…

    “As an example, some of the US soldiers who raped and killed the Iraqi girl (and were brought to justice, alhamdulillah) may be out or prison on parole before many Muslims with highly dubious convictions.”

    Well… I’ll let the “highly dubious convictions” go, but as to those ANIMALS who brutalized, raped, and killed that Iraqi girl…

    If I were King, they’d be dead. And they would have suffered. I’m not King.

    Liberals have far too much establishment power in America and I blame them for their general opposition to punishment that TRULY fits the crime.

    Hey… it’s not just that Iraqi girl. There have been similar cases in Okanawa, Japan, and South Korea – and I’m sure elsewhere. The actions of these criminals has hurt America’s image and interests across the globe, regardless of the fact that GENERALLY SPEAKING… our American military justice system is far less susceptible to legal gamesmanship and far more concerned with “justice” as normal people understand the term than our civilian criminal justice system is.

    YET… YET… I’d say the average American soldier – just as with the average American – is far more inclined to act in a professional, disciplined, and compassonate fashion than most soldiers throughout history. I’m confident “criminal” American soldiers are the very rare exception rather than the rule – even in combat situations.

    Anyway… going back to THIS specific case – the case of Sabri Ben Kahla – I wasn’t on the jury. I wasn’t a spectator. I haven’t read the transcripts of the trial. I haven’t seen the evidence. And here… here on Umar’s site… all I have to “work” with is the convicted man’s version. There’s really no “side” to take. (*SHRUG*)

    BILL

  22. Bill,

    The fact the the soldiers were brought to justice is a testament to the integrity of the US military. I have no problem with that…despite a lot of disclaimers, caveats, and criticisms. The same sort of crimes were committed under Saddam’s regime, and continue to occur in other Arab countries, with no accountability.

    I also can take no clear position on this case. However, I did want to explain the legitimate suspicion that Muslims feel towards these type of convictions in the current political environment.

  23. Bill,

    I think you are assuming that I have so much invested in a debate with you that I’d pull out all sorts of rhetorical strategies. Your March 24th, 2007 at 3:45 pm questions was:
    “But is he innocent, Umar?”
    I addressed you with the issue about the justice system . Then you you asked me to take a shot at the questions you raised, which to me seemed to be addressed only to people with intimate knowledge of the events.

    I notice the difference in tone when you write to Musa and your posts addressed to me. When you stop addressing me in such a sexist and condescending way, than maybe we can have an even more honest dialogue. From your tone it is clear that you do not take me seriously, so why should I even bother.

  24. Unrelated, but I just wanted to recommend a speech by a former liberal turned conservative on the existence of “right” and “wrong” in modern liberal thought.

    Takes a few minutes to get into, but it is worth it. I don’t agree with everything, specially regarding sexuality issues, but very interesting perspective.

  25. A former Abu Ghraib employee says something far more valuable than the moron Jordan promotes above.

    Former Army Sgt. Sam Provance was one of the heroes of the Abu Ghraib scandal, the only uniformed military intelligence officer at the Iraqi prison to testify about the abuses during the internal Army investigation. When he recognized that the Pentagon was scapegoating low-level personnel, he also gave an interview to ABC News.
    For refusing to play along with the cover-up, Provance was punished and pushed out of the U.S. military. The Pentagon went forward with its plan to pin the blame for the sadistic treatment of Iraqi detainees on a handful of poorly trained MPs, not on the higher-ups who brought the lessons of “alternative interrogation techniques” from the Guatanamo Bay prison to Abu Ghraib.
    The Congress, which was then controlled by the Republicans, promised a fuller investigation. Provance submitted a sworn statement. But Congress never followed through, leaving Provance hanging out to dry.

    http://www.humanrightsfirst.info/pdf/06214-usls-provance-statment.pdf

  26. Margari writes…

    “Bill, I think you are assuming that I have so much invested in a debate with you that I’d pull out all sorts of rhetorical strategies.”

    You think wrong, Margari. (*GRIN*) I’m a pretty up front guy. You can take my posts at face value. As for my questions… either answer them or not – makes no nevermind to me.

    Margari continues…

    “I notice the difference in tone when you write to Musa and your posts addressed to me. When you stop addressing me in such a sexist and condescending way…”

    (*SNORT*) Margari… not quite sure this is the best blog for you to go on some feminist rant on. (*SMILE*) Rather than try – and fail – to deflect reasonable questions with such transparent tactics why not simply deal with the thread as it’s developed? Or… feel free to ignore me. Again… makes no nevermind to me.

    BILL

  27. Assalaamu Alaikum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuhu, In brief Omar I heard from a brother that Chris(Khalil) is saying that he did not hurt Sabri when he testified against him. Akhie he is a Lier. Sabri Told me that he Testified against him Saying the he went to a Jihad Camp. Chris is a Sufi Lier. May Allah guide him or Destroy him he’s garbage. A miss guided Sufi. Sabri’s Family is really taking this one bad Akhie and I feel their pain. Insha Allah I will get the Court transcripts and post them so people can see what Chris is all about. He lied on Sabri to help the Kufaar lock the brother up. If you don’t believe me Omar just ask his Father next time your in VA. Chris (Khalil) use to be on the Sunnah thats how he knows Sabri they studied together in Medina. But because of Chris’s arrogance Allah misgudied him now he is a SUFI Lier Allahu a’alm. He spends a couple of years in Medina and think he can out do SHeik Jafer and ALI Timmi. He’s Garbage he helped them put our brother in Jail and now saying he did’nt help thats what misguided Sufi’s do. Tayyeb Assalaamu Alaikum

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