Movies and pretending like you don’t go

I have not seen the film 300, nor do I plan to. There are too many other good films out now to such as The Namesake (tale about a young American Desi in search for his identity), The Wind That Shakes The Barley (a great film about the treatment of Irish workers by the British in the early 20th Century and their response), and the German film The Lives of Others (about the east German secret police in the 1980’s) to name a few. So I can’t justify watching this.

Mujahudeen Ryder put up a review of 300, but let some Muslim phonies pressure him to take it down (who I am sure were watching TV as they were typing) I encourage him to put to back up and stop apologizing.

I really don’t like it when people who know that they go to the movies or listen to music want to expose someone else for doing it. I can’t tell you how many Muslims I have met would initially tell me that they don’t watch TV or listen to music or watch sports, but after getting to know them for a while, they do all of that. They will tell you they have never heard of Tupac while in front of friends, but then you find out that they have an encyclopedic knowledge of him. I knew Arab brothers who would sneak off to watch the world cup.

As for all those brothers blasting Mujahideen Ryder, some of them probably had two screens open…one which was a myspace page with the screen name DESI_PAPI43 and the intro says: “Man of love from the East skilled in the arts of the Kama Sutra. Looking for my blonde haired-blue eyed delight to practice my artistry upon”

And this isn’t just for the brothers. The sisters probably has one too: PAKIPRINCESS_taste_like_Candy. “Yea that’s right, it’s the Pakistani bitch you love to hate, and yep yep I represent the Punjab! People always asking me what I’m mixed with because they’ve never seen a Desi girl with a body like this. I just say hey! the golden curry hit all the right places”

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38 thoughts on “Movies and pretending like you don’t go

  1. Salafee, there’s a difference between covering your sins and then lecturing people for doing the exact same thing your doing but covering up. Its called hypocrisy. Its one thing to watch movies even though you think its haram and then pretend you don’t and “cover” your sins.
    Its another thing entirely to lecture people and call them lesser muslims for watching movies when you are doing it too.
    I really am quite sick of this whole kind of attitude btw. I’ve read it on countless blogs. It never seems to get old for some people.

  2. Salafee, there’s a difference between covering your sins and then lecturing people for doing the exact same thing your doing but covering up. Its called hypocrisy. Its one thing to watch movies even though you think its haram and then pretend you don’t and “cover” your sins.
    Its another thing entirely to lecture people and call them lesser muslims for watching movies when you are doing it too.

    Secretly committing the same sins you see others committing openly does not mean that you cannot admonish, advise, or even merely remind your brothers and sisters who commit those sins. Commanding the good acts and prohibiting the reprehensible acts does not stop just because you commit the same acts you witness being committed. Of course there is this aspect of “hypocrisy” (I put the word in quotes because true hypocrisy in Islam is pretending to be a Muslim while being a Kâfir in reality) in doing that, but at the very least you should remind them that they should hide their sins, for sinning openly brings about more harm and corruption than sinning in secret.

  3. Yes, we should cover our sins but we shouldn’t be phoney, like my friend who hides her television when she has company.

    I enjoy movies, especially horror flick and I’m addicted to Hanibal Lecter. You will find bint Will in the club wherever Brian Lanier is playing, at the pool hall, and at Myrtle Beach during Black Biker Week. YES – I have a bike, been riding since I was 17. When wrestling or Law and Order is on, DON’T bother me.

    Brothers – DATE YOUR WIFE. Take her out the movies, dinner (some place classy not the run down halal joint), museums… HAVE FUN. SMILE! LAUGH! We get bored sitting in the house all day, there’s only so many times you can sweep and vacuum. We could use a nice foot massage, back rub after work or a long day at home with the children (or dealing with your pain in the butt relatives). Surprise her with breakfast in bed… DO SOMETHIG FUN and EXCITING. Heck, hold her hand IN PUBLIC

    Rasheed, have you read the hadith about the person who will be hell because he used to tell the people not to do such and such, YET committed those very acts. Walk the walk, or shut up. You’ll never find me telling sisters to cover their hair, because hijab IMHO is much more than a scarf on the head, I’ve encounterd far worse behavior and ill characteristics from MANY (not all) sisters who are in all black and niqaab (the very ones who will not return your salaams if you aren’t fully covered). I’ve seen men in beards, correct married men in beards, taking their GIRLFRIENDS out. Phoney folks are the worse and I hate them with a passion. Besides if you or sister or brother so and so were doing what you’re supposed to as a Muslim, then you wouldn’t have time to notice the faults of the next (wo)man.

  4. BTW…my husband sent me into the store to purchase 50 Cents album…

    because he didn’t want anyone to see him. *FAINT*

    Could this be the reason why nonMuslims don’t respect us? Because we have two faces? We have strayed so far away from islam, meaning we think having a beard or scarf on our head is our salvation.

  5. “Secretly committing the same sins you see others committing openly does not mean that you cannot admonish, advise, or even merely remind your brothers and sisters who commit those sins”

    I really don’t agree with what you just wrote Rasheed. IMHO if you can’t live the life you’re telling everbody else to live than I really think it would be best to just keep your admonishments and advice (or “assvice” as I recently read on one blog) to yourself. As BintWill stated, either walk the walk or shutup

  6. I could have a field day with this topic. But kudos to Umar for posting this and I completely agree with BintWill.

    I have always believed this to be our hidden shirk – riyaa’. If you put up your CDs and hide the TV when the brother of the sister comes over – who is that supposed act of taqwa for – them? Pretending to not engage in something that a few brothers or sisters THINK is haram only when around them is not abstaining from said “vice” for the pleasure of Allah. Quite frankly as the Prophet clearly explained – it is the lesser shirk. And I would rather listen to music, watch Law & Order (SVU) and go see Spider-Man 3 than alter my lifestyle for the pleasure of a few suckas at the masjid when I get no friggin’ reward for it in the first place. I do believe that shirk (even asghar) is worse than Spidey…

  7. Rasheed, have you read the hadith about the person who will be hell because he used to tell the people not to do such and such, YET committed those very acts. Walk the walk, or shut up.

    I really don’t agree with what you just wrote Rasheed. IMHO if you can’t live the life you’re telling everbody else to live than I really think it would be best to just keep your admonishments and advice (or “assvice” as I recently read on one blog) to yourself. As BintWill stated, either walk the walk or shutup.

    Yes, I have. There’s actually a verse in the Qur’ân where Allah criticizes the Jews for saying things they do not do.

    There is, however, a difference between one who is committing sins (whether secret or publically) freely without a real care in the world for what he/she’s doing, chastising or rebuking those doing the same things and between one who is struggling with his/her vices, trying to stop the sins they’re committing showing (or at the very least, feeling) shame and disgrace for having committed them and failing to stop committing them while also advising and reminding others who do the same things to either try to stop committing those sins or at the very least hide them from others.

    To BintWill, may Allah forgive you for exposing your husband’s sins like that on a public forum like this. Know that Prophet Muhammad said that those who expose their brothers’ and sisters’ sins will have their sins exposed by Allah, even if it be in their own home. Conceal the sins of your brothers and sisters and Allah will conceal yours.

  8. Also:

    No one should feel proud–or even feel nonchalant–about being open and frank about one’s own sins, whether it be under the pretense of “keeping it real” or anything else. Allah dislikes that we sin. We should at the very least feel shame for the sins we fall into, especially those we fall into continuously and have a hard time avoiding.

  9. Rasheed, with all due respect – brother PLEASE! Buying a music CD is not a sin, however walking around in all black and niqaab, and collecting a welfare check is IS! Walking around in a beard and thawb, and sittitng at the masjid all day is.

    Fortunately for bintWill, there is NOTHING to hide and NOTHING to brag about – I sleep well at night and walk down the street w/out the hassle of having to watch my back. What you see is what you get….alhumdulillah my black christian parents raised me well. I have no children out of wedlock, never fornicated, never drank, never stole anything, graduated with HONORS and a regents diploma, studied Forensic Pyschology, Criminal, and Human Resource management (so a sister is edumacated).

    HOWEVER, I will talk about fake trifling Muslims, especially the brothers (you remind me of) that are always a source of fitna at the masjid – beat their wives, have multiple wives on welfare, committ adultery, former jailbirds, spread diseases to their innocent (though not naive – these sisters know w hat’s going on) wives, abuse their children. AGain, walk the walk or shut up and sit your behind down – I am not impressed easily. My actions speak for themselves as I’m the sister you’ll find out in the community taking care of those in need (out of my pocket). I’m the one who always takes the homeless in, so yes I will enjoy jazz night at the club, I will reward myself with a juicy steak from MORTON’S or mouth watering salmon from Bravo Bravo’s. I will hop on my motorcycle in the summer and ride like the wind… I will kiss my husband is public and hold his hand… GASP!

  10. Gon’ girl!

    BintWill,

    Where have you been all my life? lol
    Actually, my wife and I feel the same way. I sleep well and so does she because we’re not faking any funk around here. I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror and like what I see.

    People act like it is just a unanimous verdict upon clear verses from the Qur’an for some of the things that “their” folks say is haram when various scholars have spewed a variety of opinions over the years that span from liberal to austere and everything in between concerning what should be minor topics like beards, movies, music, etc. I mean damn – that’s all that gets people’s drawers in a twist these days. Not nifaq or riyaa – which is most clearly a sin – no ambiguity about it. But since its not as “sexy” as say…listening to a good smooth Boney James CD and since its something that’s actually hidden and can’t be detected by the religious Poe-lease, there are no public admonitions for the masjids that are filled with show-offs and hypocrites.

    I’m at a point in my life and in my deen where Muslims’ opinions of what I should or should not be doing is worth nothing to me. Yes, what you see from TheSaveRashadProject is what you get. No surprises here and I try my best not to raise my “stock” around the Muslims in order to apear to be one of those “pious” brothers. And yes, those same ones are the trifling ones that I would rather not be associated with anyway so they ain’t got to worry about coming over to my place to watch me watch tv and eat my Popeye’s chicken.

  11. Buying a music CD is not a sin, however walking around in all black and niqaab, and collecting a welfare check is IS! Walking around in a beard and thawb, and sittitng at the masjid all day is.

    Mashâ’allah. So I take it you believe music and all that other stuff you’re so open about (like movies, etc.) are undoubtedly, perfectly halâl? If so, then that’s a whole other discussion … .

    As for the things you label as sins, I wouldn’t go as far as saying that they’re sins in such an absolute manner as there may be factors that may come into play with brothers/sisters we see in those situations that we shouldn’t overlook. But in general, yes, I agree; collecting welfare cheques while having the ability to work (and find it) is wrong. The hand that gives is better than the hand that receives. There is also a statement attributed to ‘Umar bin al-Khattâb, may Allah be pleased with him, that mentions that earning money that has some harâm in it is better than begging (I’m not sure of its authenticity). But we’re not talking about that, nor am I trying to compare which sins are worse.

    The point I’m making is that being frank and open about one’s sins (almost to the point of bragging or showing pride in them under the pretense of “keeping it real” or “not faking the funk”) and not trying to hide them opens you to the very real possibility that those sins will never be forgiven by Allah. This is the issue here and the only issue I’m concerned about. The stuff about your upbringing and your education are all nice and dandy, but they’re irrelevant and have no place in this current discussion.

    Also, If you want to pretend like you know me (or the type of brother I am), that’s fine too. But you’re only kidding yourself if you think that from the little I’ve written on brother Umar Lee’s blog’s comment section (or even on my blog) you know the type of brother I am or how I live my life. It’s funny how I see several of the brothers and sisters on blogs like this complain about the state of the Muslim nation and the da’wah to Islam and Sunnah, yet feel no shame or disgrace at being so open about some of the things they talk about (e.g., listening to music, going to theatres to watch concerts or movies, etc.), feel no shame or disgrace at presumming bad things about their fellow brothers and sisters (what the heck happened to having good assumptions, or at the very least, hoping that we’re wrong about what we think of our brothers and sisters in Islam?), feel no shame or disgrace at the air of kibr that seems to permeate their comments to those who make attempts at advising them or correcting them.

    You guys mention nifâq and riyâ’. Yes, these are serious things and are degrees above music, movies, etc. in their danger, severity, and certainty with respect to their prohibition and being sins. They are things that each and every Muslim should show great concern and caution for. There is one important thing, however, that seems to have been forgotten or ignored … and that is the fact that these sins are sins of the heart, they are from the matters of the Unseen which only Allah knows and whose determination and judgement should be left to Him. The other actions and sins you dismiss as being minor are outward sins, visible to others and thus leave you open to be judged by your fellow Muslims who see you committing them.

    And one last word …

    … I will reward myself with a juicy steak from MORTON’S or mouth watering salmon from Bravo Bravo’s.

    … so they ain’t got to worry about coming over to my place to watch me watch tv and eat my Popeye’s chicken.

    Allah says in the Qur’ân, «The food of those given the Book is legal for you,» fish is halâl, and all the Popeye’s Chicken joints in my city are owned by a Muslim brother and have “halâl” certificates hanging on the wall ;) .

  12. Thank you Salafee Method.

    I don’t entertain halal/haram arguments, as I don’t buy the halal meat gimick in America – there are too many halal markets and NOT ENOUGH muslim farms… we’d be better off getting our meat from an organic market at least we will know that sheep which was slaughtered islamically wasn’t feed dog poop and animal parts (turn the TV on and watch the discovery channel) or open the local newspaper. Besides most halal markets carry ROTTEN meat.

    btw, Rasheed I have reservations at Morton’s tomorrow, care to join me? *WINK* sorry couldn’t help that one. What’s good to eat around your “old stompin’ grounds?” A Muslim with stompin’ grounds, highly suspect if you ask this sister. I appreciate your concern, the best thing you can do for me is make dua for me. I can’t hide who I am. I gave up a lot when I converted, including my family and my inheritance (but what’s money when I have a holier than thou ummah to fall back on? what’s money when my PIOUS sisters won’t return my salaams because I am not dressed according to their standards? What’s family when those who LOOOK pious will leave me standing in the rain, IN THE DARK? Brother please don’t waste your time with all the quoting, I know my weaknesses and limits (which includes liars, snakes – phoney, two faced folks, those who walk past the zakat box will our brothers and sisters are in suffering, those who love to say kafir this and kafir that, yet their character is worse than the drug dealers and pedophiles which roam our streets. I spend way too much time at the masjid (behind the scenes) to fall for the hype (as Chuck D) would say. I sit with the sisters (most masha’Allah are decent, unfortunately the ones who look pious have the worse behavior – nasty attitudes like the niqaabi who called me a black b because she request zakat every month saying it’s HER MONEY…. as if she’s the only muslim in the community suffering. I see her online – she needs TO GET A JOB! I won’t get into a I’m better than you, because the meat in my home IS NOT halal, my favorite restaurants are not Muslim establishments because I have no desire to brush aside a roach as I eat. Spare me the __________ of the righteous muslim – they are all dead as far as I can tell and yes if you have to tell me how humble and pious you are – YOU’RE NOT! Actions speak louder than words….

  13. btw Rasheed, when I first became Muslim the “pious” sisters only stressed covering, so there I was fully covered YET not knowing how to pray. I recall the audobillahs, I got when it was known my husband wasn’t Muslim (DUH – I just converted, some of us were decent BEFORE Islam)… yeah and the ones who were IGNORANT enough to tell me to give my sons away, so it would be easier to find a husband (Sorry – this woman is not that EASY or TRIFLING), if old boy can’t accept my children, then he is not worth my time. Spend some time educating these folks about real hijab, which starts from the inside. If the foundation is crumbling a fresh coat of paint is of no avail…

  14. Salafee, I am only speaking of the Islamic eateries I’ve been to in the DC metro area. If there is an upscale/fine dining halal restaurant in this area, please direct me to it. If you know of one on Long Island, let me know. Brother, I am accustomed to excellent service, and expect much more from Muslims.

    I haven’t beeen Muslim long enough to see the steady improvement, I’m appalled by the establishments I’ve been to. My grandfather (mom’s dad) was a farmer so I know how things are supposed to look and smell.

  15. I love the gyros at Pizza Roma’s. I have a preference for Jamaican and Indian/Pakistani food, and of course steak :) .

    THanks, I will look into the Turkish place.

  16. People, come on, we know that we know better!

    We are ALL sinners, no doubt. Yet, should we post our daily sin record online? For one, it’s wrong, everyone here needs to read Hood’s article (someone posted the link already); and ppl need to get over their own problems and a million tangents. Secondly, when you publish your sins, and everyone does that, then it actually becomes quite normal, and encourages others too. It’s like the gay syndrome. Talk enough about it and it becomes normal enough.

    I love you akhi Umar for the sake of Islam, so this post surprised me.

    wasalam.
    P.S. The way ppl admonished MR was pretty pathetic… the best way to advice people is to do it in person if possible. I would have done the same here, but my message was to everyone else who was replying here.

  17. Besides most halal markets carry ROTTEN meat.

    Perhaps where you live. The Muslim butcher shops in the area I live–and pretty much throughout the rest of the city–sell freshly slaughtered meat. Btw, I think you missed the last part of my post, particularly the verse I quoted from sūrah al-mâ’idah … . Please read it again.

    What’s good to eat around your “old stompin’ grounds?” A Muslim with stompin’ grounds, highly suspect if you ask this sister.

    To answer your question, my “old stompin’ grounds” have a few good spots to eat at, both Muslim and non-Muslim. The verse from sūrah al-mâ’diah aside, had you read the post fully (including the links to the articles on Wikipedia), you would have seen that the area is now about 40% Muslim, which is pretty good for Canada. There are many Muslim owned businesses and restaurants in the area. There’s also a Popeye’s Chicken (one owned by the Muslim brother I mentioned in my earlier comment). The Kâfir owned pizzeria (PizzaPizza) even serves “halâl” meat according to the Wiki-article.

    As for your suspicions, that’s the exact type of thing I was referring to earlier; about having good assumptions of your brothers and sisters. The title of my blog post is such because it’s about an area in which I used to live; it’s the area where I grew up and spent the majority of my life (pretty much from birth until my early 20s). The title has nothing to do with what I used to do back in the day or any criminal activity I used to partake in when I was younger and misdirected. Btw, had you done a bit more exploring on my blog, you would have seen that I’m a convert as well; one who converted not too long ago either. So even if the title did mean what you seem to assume, it could easily be explained by that fact.

    Regarding your past experience with Muslims during your early days of Islam, then I’m sorry to hear that and I pray that Allah rectifies the damage that those brothers and sisters did. However, as is the case with the stuff you mentioned of your upbringing and your education, it’s irrelevant to the discussion and has no bearing on the point I’m trying to get across.

    In any case, I think I’ve said enough here. Take it who takes it, leave it who leaves it.

    Wa as-salâm ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah.

  18. BintWill,

    Pizza Palace (across the street from PGMA) is pretty nice and they sell Pakistani food too (although a limited selection). My kids love their hotwings and chicken cheesesteak…

  19. There’s actually a verse in the Qur’ân where Allah criticizes the Jews for saying things they do not do.

    Just a correction to this statement I made earlier. There are two places in the Qur’ân where Allah rebukes those who say what they do not do. The first is in sūrah ash-Shu’arâ’, verses 224-226 in speaking about the poets. The second is in sūrah as-Saff, verses 2-3.

  20. “There are themes in this film that I would like to explore such as the feminine gayish ways that exist within Persian, Afghan and Desi culture and how this leads young people from these cultures to be attracted to a more decedent America and not the more traditional America.

    “Males from those cultures more easily assimilate into the current effette American culture than the more masculine based one of the past.”

    I don’t know about all that, but I do know
    that I’m sick & tired of Iranians with slick, greased-back hair (ponytail optional), who love the Gypsy Kings, going to cheesy discos and trying to pass themsevles off as Italian, trying to tell me that I’m not “really Persian” ‘cuz I’m a Muslim, I prefer keeping my chest hair to myself rather than inflicting it on the rest of the world, and I’m not a monarchist/neocon/”Aryan” supremacist.

    Laanat be hamashoon.

  21. “I prefer keeping my chest hair to myself rather than inflicting it on the rest of the world”
    LOL, You’re hilarious. I wish other men felt the same way. The world would be a better place :)

    And the greased back hair (pony tail optional) and cheesy discos is definitely not just an Iranian thing. I think its more of a Middle eastern FOB thing, sadly :)

  22. Shazia,

    the only thing I eat from Pizza Palace is the chicken biryani or tikka – they know me well, but I’m referring to a nice sit down restuarant, or at minimum a nice atmosphere. Mehran, near GW has some very good food, but I stopped going there when a mouse ran across the floor as I was eating. LOL

    Amad – I think you are reading a bit too much into this, no one is publishing their sins. It is not a sin to go see a movie, perhaps a waste of time, then again so is sitting in front of the monitor and reading various blogs. We don’t need Umar to remind us of our duty to Allah. All we need is in the Qur’an, so tell me why are we here (and if we are extremely – mingling with the opposite gender)? I like Umar because he’s not a fraud (like the majority of Muslims I’ve met). This reminds me of the woman I met teh other day. She asked me if I knew Jesus…. all this time she’s trying to talk to me about the Lord, yet was unmarried and pregnant.

    If anyone of us here had an ounce of taqwa, we wouldn’t haven’t concern ourselves with the affairs of others or notice their shortcomings…we’d be too busy correcting ourselves. Speaking of correcting ourselves – I love to smell good (always been a tomboy, so I was happy to cover my hair – it meant i didn’t have to hear my father talk about my braids and ahow a lady shouldn’t have braids – yes, its’ all mine), but it took a long time for me to stop wearing perfume.

    Sisters aren’t mingling with men, so they can get up off their butts and get a job. There’s a difference between asking the opposite sex for a weekly report versus how he’s doing (and vice versa). I shouldn’t have to read blogs from stay at home mothers talking about it’s hard for them to look good after takign care of the children, cooking and cleaning all day. *SCRATCHING HEAD* So this means she has no control over the children and is just plain nasty. Tell me why Christian children can sit down in church for a 2 – 3 hour sermon, while OUR CHILDREN cannot be still and quiet for a 30 – 45 minute khutbah – and most of these are children who are home all day with mom…Teach your wife how to raise her children, remind her that she is the adult and in control. They should be helping to keep the house clean. My two year knows how to sweep. My boys do the dishes and laundry (including folding and putting the clothes away).

    Unfortunately, too many sisters are ignorant – I bet they are the ones who husbands are the super quoters. I’ve actually read from one sister, all she has to do is go to her husband’s bed and do as he says and she’s going to heaven… UMMMMM>…. there’s more to earning Jennah than that. Yes, we are to respect our husbands (and vice versa) but we can’t even come close to being good muslimahs, mothers, wives, if we are ignorant…how can we please Allah if we don’t read? Learn? have common sense? We don’t know sheikh so and so or imam karim to tell us what is clearly stated in the Quran (or hadith).

    Yes, one day I’ll proofread my postings…

    If we have eyes we’ll see our brothers/sisters in the malls, at the theatres, in the pool halls (we’ve probably bumped into each other at the pool hall adn I was probably the sister who took your money). The sisters in hijab smoking or smell the brothers at the masjid who reek of cigarette smoke. Of course we are to encourage each other to righteousness and good deeds but actions speak louder than words.

    The ones, based on my experience, at the masjid and online that act pious are the ones who are doing the most dirt and living foul – they are the very ones who turn nonMuslims away from this beautiful deen.

    Rasheed, I didn’t read your last post (because I do not want you to waste your time with me – I can’t help my love for good food, good music, and good game of pool. I’ll never pretend, and my husband will tell you, that I am content sitting in my home all day – though I know it’s the best place for a woman. I knwo what my husband sees ont he street when he leaves, I see the same when it comes to men, so he HAS to look and smell good for me at all times as well. Too many of you pious looking men are entering the masjid and OFFENDING ME with the horrendous body odor – SOAP AND WATER POR FAVOR!

    I get sick of the Quran Thumpers. I’d rather sit in a smokey club and listen to Brian, than amongst phoney sisters talk about their trifling behind muslim husbands who are never home (when I know I should open my mouth and say he’s not at the masjid, he’s around the corner giving dawah (with his third leg) to the sister with the big booty or abnormally large breast.

    AGain, fellas – take your wife(ves) out… date her! some mornings my husband and I jog – together – after fajr, depending on our schedules.

  23. Rasheed, I didn’t read your last post (because I do not want you to waste your time with me – I can’t help my love for good food, good music, and good game of pool. I’ll never pretend, and my husband will tell you, that I am content sitting in my home all day – though I know it’s the best place for a woman. I knwo what my husband sees ont he street when he leaves, I see the same when it comes to men, so he HAS to look and smell good for me at all times as well. Too many of you pious looking men are entering the masjid and OFFENDING ME with the horrendous body odor – SOAP AND WATER POR FAVOR!

    Again … much of what you mention here is completely irrelevant.

  24. Rasheed, I’ve gotta tell you that you irritate the heck out of me. No offense, but seriously. Your attitude seems so condescending. Especially with your “what you mention here is completely irrevelant” comments. You must have written it like 4 times or something. Fine, we get it. You find it irrevelant. Who cares. The point of her comment it seems to me is speaking out against the phoneys who go around preaching, but fail to live up to the most simplest of requirements. As she made clear actions speak louder than words. So with regards to the debate on hand I do find it to be relevant.
    Bintwill, personally I wish there were fewer phoneys and more like you.

    About the movies/music are haram. I’ve never particularly understood. Why than is the internet not haram? I would think that you could come upon a lot worse using the internet than listening to music. Feel free to explain this to me anyone :)

  25. Rasheed, I’ve gotta tell you that you irritate the heck out of me. No offense, but seriously. Your attitude seems so condescending. Especially with your “what you mention here is completely irrevelant” comments.

    No offense taken, and I’m sorry you feel that way. But at the risk of sounding even more “condescending”, like the sister, you seem to miss the point as well. I get the point she’s making, but in all honesty, whether a person is being phoney or not is something for Allah to judge because sincerity’s place is in the heart. If you get advised for something (in this case, we’re talking about openly sinning–whether it’s going to movies, listening to music, or whatever).

    As she made clear actions speak louder than words. So with regards to the debate on hand I do find it to be relevant.

    Right, actions do speak louder than words. However, that has no bearing on the advice someone’s giving you for something he’s witnessed you doing (regardless of whether you believe it to be a sin or not). Let’s say for arguments sake that the original contention in Umar’s blog entry was not about movies. Say it was something that was clearly harâm, like gambling or drugs. If someone came to you saying that these things are harâm and at the very least you shouldn’t be doing these things in the open for all to see, would you then turn around and say, “I’m not going to take your admonition or advice because I (think I) know you are being hypocritical when you advise me”???

    Serious, if you reject someone’s admonition–not matter how correct and true it is–because of the advisor’s (perceived) hypocrisy, I’m sorry to say, but that’s just plain retarded.

  26. Opps, sorry, I forgot to complete these statement:

    If you get advised for something (in this case, we’re talking about openly sinning–whether it’s going to movies, listening to music, or whatever) you shouldn’t be so arrogant as to accuse the advisor of being hypocritical, having suspicions regarding his intent and sincerity.

  27. “Serious, if you reject someone’s admonition–not matter how correct and true it is–because of the advisor’s (perceived) hypocrisy, I’m sorry to say, but that’s just plain retarded.”

    I never said I would reject it. If something is correct, I’m not going to go saying its not just because I don’t like the messenger. I did say, however, that I wouldn’t want him/her giving me advice to begin with. Sorry if you have a problem with that. I would not appreciate it if a manwhore came to me and advised me on sexual promiscuity being haram and the benefits of remaining chaste until marriage. I will have no problem saying that’s the correct advice and what he says is true but IMHO I would really prefer it they just kept their mouths shut. I have zero respect for people who go around doing all kinds of shit and then come to me and start “advising” me on the exact same crap they themselves are doing. People need to take care of their own lives first before they start giving unsolicited advice to others. And I’m really not sorry about my attitude with regards to that nor do I think its being arrogant.

    This is the problem, too many “advisors” and not enough people fixing their own issues first.

  28. I think we all agree that acting phoney is an undesirable trait but unfortunately it is rampant within the ummah to varying degrees. What seems to be the most offending is when the advisor is perceived to be hypocritical as well as excessively harsh. The harshness I believe is the major problem because it distracts away from the naseehah and hurts the one being advised. So we should be talking about the proper mannerisms that Muslims should use when giving advice. But for some reason I have yet to see any comments on that?

    Pointing the finger here and there IS irrelevant and actually no better or different than being like the phoneys. Truth be told, no matter how upstanding, wealthy, educated, well mannered, cultured and “keeping it real” that you think you are, you’re just like the rest of us, your brothers and sisters in Islam, with areas of weaknesses in your life (i.e. deen). If for some reason we have forgotten, then be reminded that perfection belongs to Allah.

    Giving advice is apart of Islam. Allah tells us that reminders benefits the believers in His speech, not some of them or half of them, but all of them. Advising can’t be stopped. Even for the open sinners, it benefits them and they too have the responsibility from Allah to give good advice. This is a fact with evidences in the Qur’an and the sunnah, so whoever find faults with it, than take it up with Al Khaliq.

    Now, I didn’t read the blog on the brothers site, but Im sure the advices to him by the commentators were more harsh than necessary. I have a problem with that because it creates enmity between the Muslims when Allah has ordered us to be merciful with one another. It also weakens whatever good was in the advice.

    Though Umar Lee, if the commentators truly believed his movie going and writing about it was a sin, whether they do it or not themselves, they did have a right to say something about it. And that’s not thul wajan or two faced, that’s being a weak Muslim. And again, we all have weaknesses in our deen.

    I’d like to see you do a blog on some of your ideas, thoughts on how we as sisters and brothers can better help and advise one another toward righteousness.

  29. BintWill – I’ve been nodding my head and to everything you’ve said. Yours is a much needed voice – please start your own blog.

    As for myself, I understand people choose not listen to music, watch tv etc, I respect their choice, but it’s not mine or my husband’s.

    I forget which commenter mentioned that making such pretences is a form of shirk. Very true and that’s why I don’t and won’t do it anymore. I can take the dirty looks.

    Really, though we take these things far too seriously. One of the first things a sister asked me after marriage was “Does your husband mind you watching tv?”

  30. What’s the problem with taking advice from people who should be practicing what they preach? That really is not the point, if the advice is sound. I guess I am different, but I have always found it easier to take advice from people that needed to get themselves together first.

    I once knew a big time Nigerian drug dealer. He was studying in an American University. He told me something that has stuck with me till this day. He said that people should always work hard and never want things just handed over to them. He said that the struggle is what makes everything worthwhile and gives you a story to tell. There’s no legacy when things are handed to you on a silver platter. Sure he was fronting like he was some wealthy African Prince, but was really a drug dealer, but i always apprecaited that piece of wisdom he shared with me.

    When I was in college, I went through a ‘bad girl’ phase after coming home one Christmas break and meeting some ‘ballers’ in a club. I started hanging out with the wrong crowd and when it was time to go back to school, i wanted to stay a few more days to hang out. When the gang found out, they were very disappointed and were like, you are our college girl..look at these hood rats…you don’t what to be like them. they gave me money and sent me back to school (literally drove me). Sure those hood rats they were referring to were their ‘home-girls’ and girlfriends (or baby mama’s) and they were not living correct either, but hearing it from them like that was a great reminder that i had something going for myself and I should not blow it.

    Growing up many of my female friends were very promiscuious. I would often give them tips on how NOT to have sex. Of course it was not islamic, because I fully encouargaed dating, just not sex or at least not sex so soon or with someone that was not claiming them as their girlfriend. Often times they would ignore the adice coming from me, but let one of them slip up and get pregnant or catch a diesese (as many of them did) and if she advised them they listened (for a minute).

    My aunt has 11 children. Not one of them have amounted to much. 9 boys and 2 girls . 2 boys have been shout to death. Another in jail for murder. One gets shot constantly, but keeps living. One may be gay. Several on drugs. The two girls were unwed teen mothers. I remember my mother being in the hospital when I was in 8th grade. I was sent to stay with a very strict Uncle. I ran away and went to stay with my 2 girl cousins who were living in the house of my senile grandmother. This was also the ‘spot’ for my male cousins and their friends to hang out. as soon as my aunt found out I was there she told me i could stay the weekend but that I was to go back to my Uncle and go to school. i was thinking how her kids had dropped out and that made me take her advise more srious because I knew that she did not want me to end up like hers. My cousin Yusef (who was killed) use to always tell me how his mother bragged about me and my siblings and would compare us to them. once my brother started getting bad, than Yusef was like, “I told my mother that yall ain’t no better than us.”

    Do you all remember the program ‘Scared Straight’ where a group of juvenile delinquents were sent inside of a prison t have a rap session with some hardcore convicts? That program was a huge success. Do you think it would be as successful if they took those kids to a university or wall street and had the people there tell them that if they went to school and stayed out of trouble then one day they could live like them? Maybe..maybe not..but advice is advice, you either take it or leave it.

    It’s disappointing to see Muslims get so up tight over advice and call others phony. What ever happened to people struggling with their desires? Shaytaan has already won over the people who openly sin and have the audacity to be proud of it and brag about it, but there are others who Shaytaan really has to work on. That could be the case of the brother or sister who advises against watching TV, going to the movies, listening to music, or any other sin big or small. Perhaps that Muslim is not phony and sincerely believes that their actions are haram and they hate what they are doing with a passion, but they are weak and shaytaan whispers and whispers to entice that person. What really troubles me is that shaytaan uses the Muslim sin promoters as his agent. So now when a Muslim who struggles with some vices comes on here and reads that other Muslims who use to try and avoid certain vices have now said that they prefer to keep it real and not be phony and now openly indulges in following their desires, that Muslim may -wa nauthoo billah- be like, “yeah they right aint nothing wrong with a lil this and that I’m tired of living-in a bubble”.

    If a non hijab Muslim woman came to me and told me that it was obligatory to wear hijab, I would be curious why she did not wear it, but I would never dismiss her advice. as a matter of fact I would probably take it to heart more, because I know she is not just telling me that because she wears it and thinks that everyone else should too.

    Subhanallah! That was long…

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