What is Going On in Pakistan With Crazy Men Killing Their Daughters?

It seems as if a Pakistani man, from the same Pakistan as Mukhtar Mai, murdered his eldest daughter for marrying against his will and slit the throats of her three younger sisters because in the future they might do the same. Can someone tell me why this keeps happening in Pakistan? Can someone tell me why is it that Pakistan is supposed to a modern state then why are tribal leaders allowed to give out their own version of corrupt justice? Can someone tell me why the ulama of Pakistan are not more involved in combating this sort of savage treatment against women? It seems as if many fathers in Pakistan do not love their daughters, or if they do that love plays a lesser role to other impulses such as fear, possessiveness, jealousy and group-think.

What will be done? President Musharraf will make a statement condemning the act, the man will be sentenced, and Pakistan will try to ignore the issue. Some mullah may condemn it in a speech; but that will be about it. Amongst Progressive Muslims and the West papers will be written and speeches will be given by people no one in Pakistan has ever heard of that will have about as much effect as shouting on top of a mountain. To combat these types of acts you need education; but you also need the stick. This guy needs to die, in public, and to shame him and his tiny brain he should be forced to walk nude to the center of town with everyone watching before his throat is slit by a female police officer or official.

One more thing, and I can guarantee this, when I go to the Masjid and discuss this with some of my Pakistani friends, they will be in denial. They will say it did not happen, that the Jews in the media are exaggerating it, and they will say this is very rare. The praises of Pakistan will be sung and they will then say, “well this guy went overboard, but most of the time they are killing the zanni.”

On Another Note
Shia political parties are holding rallies in Iraq supporting the election results, the results that anyone who can do math knows are fraudulent, and counter-rallies are occurring in which Sunnis, secular Iraqis, Kurds and others are joining together in calling for an investigation and recount of the elections.


23 thoughts on “What is Going On in Pakistan With Crazy Men Killing Their Daughters?

  1. well if they have strong tribes in pakistan then that is the reason. i know in jordan the gov’t has a reduced sentence for “honor killings”. and the government does not dare make the sentence a normal murder sentence. they have to keep it reduced or they will upset a lot of powerful tribes.

    i think the only solution is to educate the people in Islam. or launch islam-based campaigns to stop these things.

  2. Subhan’Allah, brother I have no idea what’s going on there. Why call yourself the Islamic State of Pakistan where you don’t have the courage to implement justice for women? Disgusting. And Musharaff was angry at Mukthar Mai because her case was making the country look bad. Whaaaaa? No. Innocent girls being murdered and raped without any justice makes your country look bad. It makes me think about the hadith where the Prophet (salla Allahu alayhi wa salaam) stated that in the end of times, low and corrupt people will rule the Earth.

  3. I cant believe this stuff either. This is what you get when culture is mixed with religion. More often than not the girl killed did nothing wrong. Time and time again they examine the bodies after death only to say “the woman was not sexually active.”

  4. Salaam ‘Alaikum

    Most US states have the same law that Jordan has, Silencer. It allows a man or woman who killed in a “fit of passion” to get off with a relatively light sentence. In a memorable case in MD, the judge, when sentencing the man for killing his wife, basically said that he would have done the same and that she deserved it. When women use this as a defense for the murder of their spouse / SO, it is more often than not b/c he was abusing her. When men use it as a defense for the crime they’ve commited, it is b/c he caught her cheating or suspected she did — and his honor was impugned (in his mind). 1000 women are killed by their husband or boyfriend in the US every year. In one case where the lover was injured, the husband received 15 years; but for the murder of his adulterous wife, he was given a 4 month sentence.

    The tribal leaders in Jordan claim that this is part of their cultural tradition (I have never heard anyone in Jordan try to justify it by Islam). Which is funny b/c the two loopholes in the law that allow them to send their underage sons to kill women (and men, but the men killed rarely merit a peep) came from the British code of law — not the old Shari’i code, and not even the Ottoman code that Jordan was under.

    The king of Jordan has to show stronger resolve in standing up to these tribes on two issues: full citizenship for women, and closing the loopholes in the criminal code.

    — UZ

  5. Hello,
    I am also astonished about what’s going on. I’ve read this news for about 5 times now..and still don’t have any words to express my feelings of grief and shock.
    I think people need to think more about their religion, if they call themselves Muslims, than about the society they live in.
    It’s really a big stupidity to kill ones daughter in order to save or protect the family honour by showing other people, that one did a courageous deed! It’s really ridiculous!
    Muslims are said to be preparing for the hereafter, and if they forget this mission and think about changing things in such a way in this world, then everything would turn upside down, and we will be able to see only ‘chaos’.
    I hope the Muslim Ummah gets up to the right track!

  6. Silencer,
    I would agree with you that the solution to this type of thing is in finding arguments within Islam and daleel and then taking that to the people. But of course most of this is cultural and not religous so that is another thing you have to take into account.

    Abu Sinan,
    FRom where I see things, and from what I am taught, the culture of the Muslims in the Sunnah of the Prophet (sas) and the path of the Sahabah so I think that juts by being a Muslim you ae embracing a culture to a certain extent.

    Umm Zaid,
    First of all UZ, there is a woman interested in Shahadah and I have sent her to your site so you may be getting a message from her. You make a good point, one I failed to make, in that domestic violence and spousla muder in the US is rampant, and there are often lenient sesntences.
    How would you define full citezenship for women UZ?

  7. Umar,

    i’m saying we need to solve this with religion BECAUSE it is cultural. a lot of those ppl dont know their religion enough. if they were to learn proper islam and daleel against this, and if there is more religion in their lives in general, they will not be committing such horrible acts.

    i’m not sure i wanna be quoting Amr Khalid, but he’s right when he says the people are too scared of fixing their nations based on iman. if nations would start campaigns to improve themselves, and use islam, the movements would be more successful.

  8. By the way, did any of you guys see the documentary where the little girl in pakistan was burnt alive by her husband but survived?

    She stayed alive for months, but they could not afford any pain killers.

    She was crying to her mother to kill her to end the pain.

    It was one of the saddest things I have ever seen. The girl was so young.

  9. Umar, once again you break taboo and address issues honestly!

    I know I will get in trouble for this, but i sincerely think that the role of women in Islam is a major factor in honor killings.

    (by “Islam” I mean the idiology that is CURRENTLY practiced in the Islamic world. I recognize that it hasn’t always been this way and is somewhat diverse through the world.)

    It just seems that in every society where Islamic fundementalism (such as the burka) plays a major role, violence against women is:

    1. At an unnacceptably high level

    2. Is rarely reported, disgused, or prosecuted… as if it never happened

    Point number #2 is probably the most important.

    People largely dismiss female violence in the Islamic world because we see simularities in statistics of westearn violence.

    However, we naturally (and falsely) assume that in the Islamic world, violence and rape are publicly reported at the same level as in the westearn world.

    Unfortinately, the honor code prevents women from speaking out against their rapists or attackers… making this issue harder to recognize and probably worse than any of us would care to imagine.

    I admit that I might not be completely fair on this subject due to limited knowledge (my girlfriends viewpoints has replaced my own), and I don’t want to unfairly blame Islam if it is trully a localized cultural issue.

    I just think it is important to determine which it is as it will dictate how to best solve the problem, which of course is important to all of us.

    (something about hurting women, children, and small animals really brings out the worst feelings in me)

  10. I am intrigued by the underlying psychology of these events. I don’t completely understand it yet, but here’s my theory so far:

    The fathers seem to think that their daughters could have prevented whatever happened, even if it was rape they are convinced there isn’t any such thing as rape, a woman has to allow it. Not only is this “blaming the victim,” but it is also a denial of the fact that we live in a world where bad and random things happen, e.g. rape. It’s as if what happened to their daughter threatened to shatter the world view of the father, an infantile view of the world as a place where people can prevent bad things from happening, a woman can prevent rape, a father can prevent people from raping his women, etc..I wonder if the daughter is killed as a kind of psychological ritual in which a psychotic thought process makes the father believe that by getting rid of the “evidence” he is undoing the reality of what happened and asserting himself as being in charge after feeling totally disempowered by being unable to protect/control his women.

  11. Actually I realized that the situation you noted was something very different–but probably those cases like the one you cited are unusual–I don’t think too many people would kill all their daughters because of something one of them did…

    I think the fear of daughters marrying men of their choice comes from a male identity based on control of women. I have some thoughts about this too but I won’t ramble on more here…

  12. Salaams. Okay, I gots lots of comments on this one:

    1) Silencer mentions educating people about Islam. Which made me think of the very successful health and literacy brigades that were sent out to the campesinos after the revolution in Nicaragua. A similar thing could be done that presents accurate daw’ah to those people who are clinging to tribal and cultural notions that are not part of Islam. Although it is cultural issues that create the problems, I truly believe that in most cases it is because of a genuine lack of accurate knowledge of Islam that has been passed down through generations, so that sometimes they even believe that what they are doing IS part of Islam!

    2) UZ has a totally valid point about the way murder is handled in the U.S. If a man murders his wife because he “thinks” she was cheating (and trust me, I DO actually understand though not condone killing her if you catch her in the bed), he gets a very light sentence because everyone can “understand” how he feels and that they could have reacted the same way. But if a woman kills her husband who there is evidence has been beating her and abusing her children for years, even if it is after discovering that he has molested their daughter, she will serve the rest of her life in prison. This is a fact. It happens time and time again that women who have killed a boyfriend or spouse, even in direct self defense, serve long sentences.

    3) The issue of rape as brought up by Elizabeth is another matter. It is not just in Pakistan or Arab nations that it is thought that a woman must have asked for it, deserved it, or otherwise caused it (we hear those same things brought up in U.S. courts all the time). I am going to tell you something very personal here: I was raped by a friend of my husband. My husband had a very hard time wrestling through his cultural baggage as a Latino, because the prevailing belief in his country and the country of my attacker is that if a man succeeds in having sex with a woman, she is at fault for not preventing it. Apparently, any girl or woman should be capable of killing her attacker to prevent her rape and preserve her honor. As ridiculous as we may know that is, it doesn’t change the fact that this is how a lot of men think and have been taught to think for generations. On the other hand, I can also tell you that here in the U.S., if I had managed to seriously wound or kill my attacker, I would be in a prison cell right now because in my county, self defense is NEVER a legally acceptable defense for a woman to use. I know this because I barely injured an attacker who had tried to beat me up, and I went to jail for it while he did not, and I was told in court that I could not claim self defense.

  13. I saw this link somewhere, and it resulted in many question on my side.
    I tried to mail the sender of this article, but all efforts in vain…. now I’m posting that reply here, with my comments on and questions about certain issues concerning this topic! (I’m not sure if I’m going off-topic or not..if ‘yes’ then do delete my this mail! :) )
    This e-mail concerns the article that you posted on this website ( http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm) on the first of July 2005.
    I’ve noted down some points on which I totaly or partially don’t agree with you.
    By the way it was a well written article with a lot of arguments, and it was a good example of a persuasive text.
    * “Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, An-Nisa’i and others:
    Abu Hurayrah reports that the Messenger of Allah said, “No one commits adultery while still remaining a believer, for faith is more precious unto Allah than such an evil act!é In another version, it is stated, “When a person commits adultery he casts away from his neck the bond that ties him to Islam; if, however, he repents, Allah will accept his repentanceé.”
    –>So, does it mean that Allah will accept his repentance in the form of his death???

    –> Honour killings aren’t only linked to adultery and sexual intercourse outside ones marriage!
    This is the piece of text I wrote yesterday somewhere as a comment before reading your article in response to the news (a father kills his four daughters!…see: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pakistan_honor_killings ):
    I can’t believe how many replies this topic got within a period of two days! I really enjoyed reading all the replies.
    As far as the topic is concerned, I should possibly mention that I am a Muslimah myself and I am certainly against ‘honour killings’.
    These ‘honour killings’ are also prohibited or forbidden in Islam. In order to elaborate in this point I will explain something about ‘run away marriages’ that I found out about a year ago.
    According to Islam girls of the age of 16 and above and boys of the age of 18 and above have the right to choose their own life partner, as they are said to have reached the age of maturity. The consent of the parents is pleasing but nor necessary or obligatory. So it means that if a 16 year old Muslimah wants to marry an 18 year old Muslim, Islamically she isn’t bound not to do so in any way.
    As far as the ‘honour killings’ are concerned, then they are quite nonsensical in my point of view, as they are based more on your position in this world and society, in comparison to your position in the world hereafter, if one believes in the existence of a heaven and a hell.
    ‘Honour killings’ by no means are justifiable by the religion Islam. What makes people do such things are the social pressues around them.
    And what do you folks thing about the ‘selfish gene’ by Richard Dawkins by the way? Don’t these people, who kill their own blood, want their genes to live a healthy and happy life? A bit difficult to answer for me…
    After having read your article I would like this piece of text to undergo several changes/ammendments like I would say:
    ‘Some types of ‘Honour killings’ are justifiable by the religion Islam, and the types that are NOT justifiable include ‘runaway marriages’ and ‘rape’.
    This is what I think about the whole issue because you just gave us a proof that honour killings are allowed or better said recommended in Islam when we are talking about adultery. Nowhere did you say that Islam says that a raped woman/girl should be stoned to death or should be killed because she underwent something which she wasn’t supposed to!

    * And we are not fighting back. Deep down, we know that when a woman has disgraced her family, nothing will restore honor except by killing her.
    –> A woman can disgrace here family in many ways i.e. something are in her hand, others are not. She isn’t always the one who does something wrong, but it can also be the case that someone did something to her, and then she is a double-victim ( a victim of what she underwent and a victim of what she still has to undergo while living in this society among her family members!)
    * And make no mistake about it: a woman does tarnish her family’s honor by engaging in pre-marital sex, or by getting herself raped, when she seeks divorce and when she marries against her family’s wishes.
    –> According to your article Islam only orders to kill a woman to death in case of ‘pre-martial sex’ and not in the other three cases!!!
    * A woman who is either raped or commits adultery becomes the source of shame to her family. People will not marry her because she has been spoiled; she and her family becomes the object of gossip of everyone in the society; hence the entire family can lose prestige. No one would give a daughter to the brothers of that girl in marriage and no one would marry her sisters. The family and even the extended family are maligned and become outcasts. This can only stop if the family cleanses that stain with blood. The woman thus defiled must be killed even if she is a victim of rape.
    —> You see…here you mention the ‘gossip everyone in he society’…and the ‘prestige of the family’. Why does a family want honour in this life? For Allah/God or some other supreme power? NO… just for the sake of others living around one. In order to be able to live in this world, in a society of people who have made certain values legal, one ‘has’ to abide by the rules because otherwise he/she is an outlaw. And with the death of one person..these people see the life of many others in the family. This is just insanity and selfishness, and is the result of society rather than religion!
    P.S: I never intended to insult you in anyway. You brought forth your point of view on this topic, and it was really kind of you to mention your e-mail address as well. Now that I’m contacting you, it isn’t meant as a fight, challenge or discussion, but I think we all need to solve certain problems together to come to a common solution which is applicable for the majority.

  14. All over the world, men kill women for being unfaithful, and sometimes women kill men for being unfaithful…the court system often does have a double standard…rape victims still often aren’t treated right…but: I have never heard of a case of an American father who killed his daughter because she got raped. If such a case ever occured, I’d be interested in knowing about it. Also, although I am sure there have been cases of American fathers killing their daughters for running off with the “wrong” man, I can’t remember such a case…I’m willing to believe it may have happened, but I don’t know where or when…more commonly has been the tradition of the “shotgun marriage” where a man who slept with or raped a woman was forced to marry her (sometimes at gunpoint) to cover up what happened (the rape or sex before marriage) In fact I have a suspicion this is how my maternal grandparents got married…but no one got killed. Today you don’t hear about too many shotgun marriages in the U.S., primarily because of birth control…

  15. I don’t understand why in hell people have to balme on “Islamic” Rep of Pakistan the faults of an Idiot.

    Yesterday a guy beat his six year old son to death on Cahokia, IL. along with his girlfriend.
    Is it the fault of “Christian” Rep of America????


  16. Assalaamu alaikum,

    I don’t think that honor killing is tied to the burka. Jordan isn’t the most “fundamentalist” society. And honor killings happen with Muslims living in the West (not to mention in non-Muslim societies). I’ve seen stories about Jordanian guys who killed their sisters and they weren’t even religious, much less “fundamentalist”.

    I don’t claim to understand how Pakistani society views a woman who has been raped, but I wouldn’t assume that the father always thinks his daughter could have prevented it. There was a case of a woman doctor who was raped, and the men from her area fought clashes in support of her (there was some clash going on anyway).

    Jordan, you seem to be implying that rapes are more common in traditional Islamic societies than in the West, but I doubt that. Of course, every place is different, but I live in Kuwait, and rape is not something that the average woman even thinks about. (I’m not talking about maids, but even with maids, I don’t think the rate is that high – and if it does happen, it’s not the religious fundamentalists doing it.)

    This is not to claim that the men are necessarily better, but the way the lifestyle is, there just isn’t the same opportunity. For one thing, the crime rate is low in general. But also, you have several families (an extended family) living in a house, and you just don’t have the phenomenom of some rapist sneaking into houses and raping women, since women don’t live alone (neither do men) and there are always other people around. And when women go out, they rarely go alone. Even to go shopping, they have sisters, mothers, cousins, etc.

  17. Well.. ‘un drained’… no one is giving Pakistan the blame… I think we all are trying to find out if ‘hanour killings’ only take place in Islamic societies/countries and if they are related to the religion Islam!
    And this incident, mentioned first in this topic, serves as an example of the whole topic ‘honour killings’… I guess!
    I’m not sure though…

  18. No sis Amena, “honor killings” are not part of the Islamic Sharia. If one suspected or saw his wife/daughter/sister with a man in an illegal relationship, then you suppose to bring the matter to the Islamic Judge, the Qadi.
    The whole problem is that Islamic Counries do not have Islamic Laws governing them, they do not have Islamic Judges as final authorities (Thanks to the West for abolishing Ottoman Empire and setting-up puppet regimes in Muslim countries, who only want to obey those laws that suit them)

    Thats why people take the laws in their own hands.

    Get back to Shariat and all of our problems will be solved.


  19. Well.. I agree with you.. but in the case of ‘adultery and pre-martial relationships’… the adulters should be stoned to death according to Islamic teachings, right?
    So isn’t it a form of ‘honour killings’ as well?
    I’m not sure, that’s why I’m asking….

  20. I dont see why Muslims feel the need to comment on every single headline which makes the news as if we share some sort of collective responsibility for the acts of some deranged lunatic in some remote village in Pakistan.
    Determine the facts, and execute him for his crime, end of story.
    Stop calling domestic violence in pockets of the Muslim world “honor killings.” Either that, or start calling similar crimes of passion honor killing here in the west.
    As far as Jordan the zionist’s ignorant commentary, I only have one thing to add. Do you honestly expect someone who supports zionist terrorism where Palestinian woman are not even allowed access to a hospital, and end up giving birth at an some Israeli checkpoint…usually fatal for both the mother and child to be be concerned about this case in Pakistan?
    Yeah right.

  21. no sis Amena, the punishment of Adultry is same in Islam as in Jewish or Christian religion- stone to death.
    And this law is not man-made as the honor killing is, it is God-made.
    And this law is not applied by any individual but it is applied by the State or the Qadi.

    Thats the difference.

  22. Assalaamu alaikum,

    Dr. Maxtor, I agree with you. I read in my newspaper about sick things that happen all over the world, in Muslim countries and non-Muslim countries, and I don’t feel the need to apologize for anything that has nothing to do with me. I’m not apologizing for what every Muslim in the world does or says, just like I’m not apologizing for what every American does or says.

    What this guy did was horrible, and insha’allah he’ll be punished. And insha’allah they’ll allow some true Islamic education to replace these backwards attitudes and tribal councils, etc.

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